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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2024 14:01:21 -0500
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On 14 Dec 2024 16:52:01 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:

>AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On 12/14/2024 8:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:59:41 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 12/13/2024 8:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 1:15 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   The vast majority of the mass shootings that target
>>>>>>>> random victims in schools, malls, and theaters aren't
>>>>>>>> committed by people with a violent past, so the argument
>>>>>>>> that 'they never committed violence before' is pretty
>>>>>>>> much irrelevant to the context of this conversation.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yes, I realize there have been a number of instances  at
>>>>>>>> clubs, bars, and parties where it seems to be related to
>>>>>>>> gang activity. Those aren't' the types of incidents we're
>>>>>>>> discussing.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes I agree.  The bulk of 'mass shooting' events are
>>>>>>> tangential to ongoing criminal activity; at a party, in a
>>>>>>> bar, drive-by in front of a crowd, etc.  Utterly different
>>>>>>> problem (with different possible resolutions) than a
>>>>>>> deranged but determined homicidal maniac.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I can't think of a deterrent/preventive strategy except
>>>>>>> for maybe public execution and I hesitate to assume even
>>>>>>> that would dissuade Son of Sam, Nikolas Cruz, Richard
>>>>>>> Ramirez, Stephen Paddock, Jeffrey Dahmer, or their ilk.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One suggestion might be to look at the social conditions in
>>>>>> nations similar to the U.S. but with far fewer killings,
>>>>>> especially gun killings, per capita. Emulate what they do.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "?No Way To Prevent This,? Says Only Nation Where This
>>>>>> Regularly Happens"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-
>>>>>> nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I do not have a snappy solution.
>>>>> 
>>>>> some context:
>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386759/mass-shootings-us-other-developed-world/
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>>>> 
>>>> Even if all the "assault weapons" were rounded up and destroyed, it
>>>> wouldn't stop the mass murders nor any other murders. There are too
>>>> many other ways to do it.
>>>> 
>>>> Where there's a will, there's a way. The problem is there are people
>>>> with the will.
>>> 
>>> It’s much much harder without a gun and particularly a gun that can be
>>> rapidly fired.
>>> 
>>> Mass murders by other means are not impossible but that much harder and can
>>> be stopped by brave unarmed people as with the children killed in the uk
>>> this summer, which was used by various right wing groups to inspire riots
>>> by well lying!
>>> 
>>> But the suspect was slowed by one of the nursery workers I think she died
>>> from her injuries but she was able to slow/prevent and a colleague got help
>>> from the Gym? Anyway a large chap who subdued the attacker.
>>> 
>>> Don’t get me wrong I suspect that it would require more than just removing
>>> easy access to guns etc, but even that almost certainly would have dramatic
>>> effects.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> C'est bon
>>>> Soloman
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Roger Merriman
>> 
>> Well, yes to some extent.
>> 
>> In the instant example from NYC, Mr Mangione, an engineer, 
>> originally planned to make a bomb but decided the risk of 
>> injury/death to people other than his target was too high so 
>> he made his own firearm and suppressor with a 3D printer. 
>> Good luck 'regulating' a capable determined psychopath.
>> 
>> Anyone with basic machining skills can make a Sten. The 
>> simple open bolt action design is at the top end of firing 
>> rates for automatics:
>> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/guns-and-parts-seized-man-arrested-in-weapons-raids/news-story/e7addecb691695b3aebdb5b613181132
>
>I’m sure they could but that’s not the path of least resistance ie to use
>the gun they own.
>> 
>> Although the path of least resistance has changed to 3D print:
>> https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/14/australia/australia-3d-printed-firearm-intl-hnk/index.html
>
>I believe that’s more criminals trying to avoid detection, than being
>actively used at least in the mass killings.
>> 
>> Criminals shooting each other and the innocents nearby are a 
>> real problem. That problem, within bounds of rationality, 
>> likely has solutions for mitigation. A madman determined to 
>> kill will not be deterred by licensing/prohibition.
>
>Places that have removed guns or from general circulation suggest otherwise
>plus police actions.
>
>Ie in the uk use of gun means as criminals you’ve instantly made yourself
>UK most wanted, let alone your chance of survival if the armed police
>encounter you.
>> 
>> A short walk through the history of anarchist and insurgent 
>> bombings shows huge losses.
>
>Occasionally yes, but it’s much harder work and much less numbers certainly
>per year.
>> 
>> p.s. regarding 'rapid'
>> Modern semi rifles and pistols fire all within the same rate 
>> range, which is lower than revolvers BTW and much slower 
>> than even primitive home built automatics
>> 
>Indeed any gun control would almost certainly target those. As happens in
>various countries.
>
>Roger Merriman
>

Your reference to using a gun in the UK being a serious crime is
really what makes it less common. If we made carrying a gun while
committing a crime a serious offense with mandatory prison it would be
a serious detereant. Instead we just turn them loose.

--
C'est bon
Soloman