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From: Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: BOLO pervert cyclist
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2024 18:02:40 -0700
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On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 10:45:15 -0400, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 9/11/2024 10:04 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 12:23:31 +0200, Rolf Mantel
>> <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Insurance rates are set for separately for each individual vehicle type.
>>> On reading carefully, you mostly find "Insurance for Tesla" went up
>>> catastrophically because
>>> 1) Tesla had a bad spare parts logistics (meaning insurance have to pay
>>> hire car for longer until a repiar can be done)
>>> 2) Few mechanics being trained to repair Tesla (meaning insurance have
>>> to pay hire car for longer until a repair can be done and while the
>>> repair is done, often the mechanic takes a lot longer than expected
>>> because they first have to learn about the particulars)
>> 
>> Higher insurance rates might not be totally due to dealer network
>> problems.  The drivers might also be at fault.  See any of these
>> videos for what drivers do to their vehicles:
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=just+rolled+in>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=just+rolled+in+Tesla>
>> 
>>> You might find similar stories in the next few years for the new Chinese
>>> makes but very unlikely for EV of standard makes with an established
>>> dealer network.
>> 
>> Today's cars are designed to be diagnosed by a computer, not a trained
>> or independent mechanic.  The vehicle is plugged into a computer,
>> which is connected via the internet to a computer operated by the
>> manufacturer.  The diagnostics are run and the results are printed.
>> The mechanic just follows the instructions and replaces parts until
>> the problem is fixed.  Little wonder repair costs have dramatically
>> increased.  I suspect all new EV's are repaired in this manner.
>
>Rolfs comment was not about the tools used. It was about tool and parts 
>availability.

I mentioned that later in my reply to Frank.  I probably should have
added it to my initial comments.  Quoting myself:

"See John Deere and "right to repair" for a clue on what's happening.
Basically, the software and documentation that are needed to fix
anything, is being guarded like they were the crown jewels by almost
every company except for the really tiny companies that are desperate
for "product differentiation" talking points."

>- While Tesla does have a standardized CAN bus interface, the more 
>complex diagnostics require proprietary Tesla tools.

Yep.  Every manufacture has some manufacturer specific proprietary
codes that are not documented and cannot be interpreted by commodity
code scanners.  There are also "advanced" coded which are mostly the
generic codes, with some additional detail.

>Most non-Tesla 
>repair businesses aren't going to spring for that (especially the 
>independents), and in fact may not be allowed to do so depending on what 
>state they are in (right-to-repair laws are not uniform).

I don't know.  I might be able to ask next week.

>- The other part of that is supply chain for parts. As Rolf mentioned, 
>if they can't get the parts, the insurance company may have to spring 
>for an extended loaner.

It's one thing to not have parts in stock or available from the
original parts manufacturers.  It's another to flatly refuse to
provide parts to independents, set prices to astronomic levels, vendor
locks parts, destroy old parts inventor to prevent owners from
extending the life of their vehicle to beyond where the manufacturer
tries to force the owner to buy a new vehicle, refuse to provide
documentation that will allow anyone to make their own part, etc.
Extra credit for suing someone who tries and succeeds.

The bottom line is do you own the vehicle, or are you temporarily
licensing it from the manufacturer?  






-- 
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558