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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 07:38:18 -0500
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2024 07:15:49 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On 11/13/2024 5:35 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 16:31:50 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 11/13/2024 4:19 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:57:24 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/13/2024 3:23 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk.  I guess that's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch.  Perhaps one day we'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And there's this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side paths.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dangerious then the road?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> No, I did not argue that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and
>>>>>>>>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Quit emulating Tom.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>>>>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>>>>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>>>>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes
>>>>>>>>>> are] more dangerous then the road?"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> spelling corrected and context clarified.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my
>>>>>>>>> positions are convincing anybody.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a
>>>>>>>> distortion?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here it is again....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>>>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>>      https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No baffling involved. I simply quoted the incorrect, nonsense that you
>>>>>> wrote.
>>>>>
>>>>> and conflated "all are" with "can be" in the process.
>>>>> If you know you did it, you're a liar.
>>>>> If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, are you ignorant? or a liar?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No.
>>>>>>> 98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the
>>>>>>> earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a
>>>>>>> thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American
>>>>>>> Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per
>>>>>>> million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW
>>>>>>> first, WA second, LAB third:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41
>>>>>>> Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59
>>>>>>> Multiuse trail:                181, 91, 88.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than
>>>>>>> ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with
>>>>>>> reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small
>>>>>>> portion of our rides use such trails.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Didn't you admit that you used them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in
>>>>>>> question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of
>>>>>>> leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over
>>>>>>> an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another undocumented anecdote.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the
>>>>>>> pavement stays quite clean.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those studies don't mention what types of cyclists were involved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that a far higher percentage of cyclists on MUPs would likely be
>>>>>> inexperienced, elderly, and/or children, the results of studies are
>>>>>> worthless.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not nearly as worthless as you opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>
>>>> Truth is, Junior, I never mentioned the words, "all are." I simply
>>>> quoted Krygowski's nonsense.
>>>
>>> The truth is, dumbass, you copy pasted Franks message from your "Frank
>>> File"* in support of Johns claim that Frank said "All", conflating "all
>>> are" with "can be" in the process.
>> 
>> I did no such thing. I simply posted something related to it.
>
>Unlike you, we have reading comprehension beyond the 4th grade. Your 
>intention was to conflate it 'all are' with 'can be'.
>
>> 
>>> If you know you did it, you're a liar.
>>> If you didn't know you did it, you're ignorant.
>>>
>>> So, are you ignorant? or a liar?
>> 
>> Wow, Junior. What are you so angry about?
>
>Got it, you're both.
>
>> 
>>> * You still don't get how revealing of your (lack of) character and
>>> hypocrisy it is to keep a "frank file" with all his messages for easy
>>> access.
>> 
>> Those Krygowski quotes above came directly from the website he and his
>> friends made.
>> https://bicyclinglife.com/
>
>gee, that's not obsessive at all.

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