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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:23:12 -0500
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On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 15:01:19 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 11/13/2024 2:07 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 13:52:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 11/13/2024 11:11 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>> On 11/13/2024 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 10:13:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/13/2024 4:27 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Nov 2024 03:35:27 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 12 Nov 2024 21:29:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/12/2024 4:44 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just did a web search for "walking helmet", and got pages of
>>>>>>>>>> stuff on
>>>>>>>>>> helmets for babies and toddlers learning to walk.  I guess that's a
>>>>>>>>>> thing these days; I must be out of touch.  Perhaps one day we'll
>>>>>>>>>> see a
>>>>>>>>>> generation unwilling to step outside without a helmet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That'll be a sad day indeed. But the general trend toward "Danger!
>>>>>>>>> Danger!" warnings is strong. At one time, Safe Kids recommended
>>>>>>>>> that no
>>>>>>>>> kid under age 10 be allowed to cross a street alone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And there's this:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Bicycle-Safety.jpg
>>>>>>>>> (Thanks, Jeff.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I understand that some fear mongers actually want to ban bidirectional
>>>>>>>> side paths.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Didn't Frank argue that ALL bike lanes were dangerious. Or rather more
>>>>>>> dangerious then the road?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I did not argue that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And John, much like Tom, you need to rely much less on your "memory" and
>>>>>> much more on actual quotes of what I've said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quit emulating Tom.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>>>>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>>>>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>>>>> --Frank Krygowski
>>>>> https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>>>>
>>>> which is not "ALL bike lanes were dangerous. Or rather [ALL bike lanes
>>>> are] more dangerous then the road?"
>>>>
>>>> spelling corrected and context clarified.
>>>>
>>>> floriduh dumbassess 4th grade reading comprehension on display again
>>> I wonder if those two guys really think their obvious distortions of my
>>> positions are convincing anybody.
>> 
>> 
>> I quoted your exact words and provided documentation. How is that a
>> distortion?
>> 
>> Here it is again....
>> 
>> 
>> "Surprisingly, bike trails can be more dangerous than roads."
>> "[-] you're more likely go to the emergency room from riding a mile on
>> the bike trail than from riding a mile on the roads!"
>> --Frank Krygowski
>>   https://bicyclinglife.com/SafetySkills/FrankNFred014.htm
>
>This guy is baffled by the distinction between "ALL are" and "can be."

No baffling involved. I simply quoted the incorrect, nonsense that you
wrote. 

>And for some data, see Transportation Research Record 1636 Paper No. 
>98-0009, "Adult Bicyclists in the United States" by William E. Moritz
>
>His research paper referenced three different surveys of bike users, the 
>earliest of League of American Wheelmen members in 1974, one of about a 
>thousand Washington State adults in 1994, and one of League of American 
>Bicyclists members in 1996. Here are the resulting crash rates (per 
>million km) by facility. The numbers are in chronological order, so LAW 
>first, WA second, LAB third:
>
>Major road with no facilities: 71, 69, 41
>Minor road with no facilities: 65, 82, 59
>Multiuse trail:                181, 91, 88.
>
>All three surveys found multiuse trails to be much more dangerous than 
>ordinary streets and roads, per kilometer (or mile) traveled.
>
>And as I've mentioned here before, I'm seeing the same thing with 
>reports of crashes among out club riders, even though only a small 
>portion of our rides use such trails.

Didn't you admit that you used them?

>BTW, the last such crash was less than two weeks ago. The guy in 
>question moved to the center of the trail to avoid a thick coating of 
>leaves. But in the center were some chunks of broken tree branches, over 
>an inch thick. He hit those and went down, breaking several ribs.

Another undocumented anecdote.....

>That's very rare on the road. If you ride where car tires pass, the 
>pavement stays quite clean.

Those studies don't mention what types of cyclists were involved. 

Given that a far higher percentage of cyclists on MUPs would likely be
inexperienced, elderly, and/or children, the results of studies are
worthless.

--
C'est bon
Soloman