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Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: immibis <news@immibis.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Proving my 2004 claim that some decider/input pairs are incorrect questions (NFFC) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 05:00:05 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 29 Message-ID: <usr8c5$p107$3@dont-email.me> References: <usda7b$18hee$1@dont-email.me> <use1sh$1gd96$2@dont-email.me> <use37h$15q45$3@i2pn2.org> <use4f1$1grfn$1@dont-email.me> <8634t1nx2p.fsf@yaxley.in> <usfase$1p1t5$1@dont-email.me> <usfd8m$1p8cg$4@dont-email.me> <ush8rt$288t1$1@dont-email.me> <usi0ej$2d0oc$2@dont-email.me> <usk8s1$2v4mk$1@dont-email.me> <uskg40$30hr1$2@dont-email.me> <usmk7t$3hvpu$1@dont-email.me> <usn4k9$3li08$1@dont-email.me> <usn7b3$3m7lb$1@dont-email.me> <usn89c$3m7k2$4@dont-email.me> <usp4u1$6nok$1@dont-email.me> <uspnac$aqak$1@dont-email.me> <usq00t$1l201$4@i2pn2.org> <usq0ru$caqa$11@dont-email.me> <usq6sc$ed9g$2@dont-email.me> <usq7n8$e4sh$6@dont-email.me> <usqdkp$fsqm$1@dont-email.me> <usqe55$g2eo$2@dont-email.me> <usql24$1m5uu$1@i2pn2.org> <usqlo0$hn98$3@dont-email.me> <usqn03$1m5ut$4@i2pn2.org> <usqor4$id9c$2@dont-email.me> <usqtpi$1mf1r$2@i2pn2.org> <usr0sm$js25$1@dont-email.me> <usr2dd$k5kt$2@dont-email.me> <usr3ml$kdfp$1@dont-email.me> <usr5u4$1mk0g$6@i2pn2.org> <usr6al$oipj$3@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 04:00:05 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="d3f75eaadad991e96f7897dd49a5bb0b"; logging-data="820231"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/++D8bQLx+03IQUWXcS6Ka" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:9Tzp8L2m8yDKJxBRJUe8mBML1xo= In-Reply-To: <usr6al$oipj$3@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 3153 On 13/03/24 04:25, olcott wrote: >> H COULD halt in a state other than qy or qn and thus make itself wrong. >> > No it is not wrong. It is the same as a divide by zero exception. Is "divide by zero exception" the correct answer to "does this machine halt?"? >> This might be a reasonable extension for a decider, Accept, Reject, >> and an "I can't tell". The key is to somehow limit where "I can't >> tell" can be used, or it makes the decider useless. >> > If it can be limited then it can be limited for H(D,D) > otherwise when some machine can do it then it can be done. I don't think you understood what Richard said. >> Could be a LOT better (but still not meet the original requrements) >> then lying by going to Accept or Reject incorrectly. >> >> This was actually discussed as an option a while back > > This time you understand how H(D,D) and H1(D,D) work instead > of simply denying that they do what they did do. Halting semi-deciders that sometimes output "I can't tell" can still be very useful practical tools, however, they do not disprove the halting theorem.