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From: Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Yes, t'=t in GPS.
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2024 08:37:08 +0200
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Am Freitag000013, 13.09.2024 um 10:38 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
> W dniu 13.09.2024 o 09:37, Thomas Heger pisze:
>> Am Samstag000007, 07.09.2024 um 09:49 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>> W dniu 07.09.2024 o 09:26, Thomas Heger pisze:
>>>> Am Freitag000006, 06.09.2024 um 12:22 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>>>> W dniu 06.09.2024 o 12:16, Thomas Heger pisze:
>>>>>> Am Donnerstag000005, 05.09.2024 um 10:26 schrieb Maciej Wozniak:
>>>>>>> W dniu 05.09.2024 o 08:57, Thomas Heger pisze:
>>>>>>>> Am Mittwoch000004, 04.09.2024 um 23:10 schrieb Python:
>>>>>>>>> Le 04/09/2024 à 23:03, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 04.09.2024 o 21:30, Python pisze:
>>>>>>>>>>> Le 04/09/2024 à 20:21, Maciej Wozniak a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>>> W dniu 04.09.2024 o 19:48, gharnagel pisze:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 4 Sep 2024 13:09:57 +0000, Maciej Wozniak wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Common sense was warning your idiot guru.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> St. John the Divine was warning Warped Wozniak, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bald-faced liar:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> St John (fuck his absurd threats anyway) won't
>>>>>>>>>>>> help,  t'=t in GPS,  at least if by t, t' we
>>>>>>>>>>>> mean clock  indications.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> How such t and t' are clock indications.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> According to the own definition of
>>>>>>>>>> your [Einstein] - time is "what clocks
>>>>>>>>>> indicate",
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't be lazy, Wozniak, read! "time is "what clocks indicate" is
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is wrong!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Time does not depend on clocks, because clocks are manmade 
>>>>>>>> artifacts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are they? And so is time, except that it is
>>>>>>> an abstract.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrist-watches, for instance, are tiny machines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But those machines are made by human beings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would make no sense at all to assume, that nature would produce 
>>>>>> wrist-watches or cares, whether or not humans do.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Therefore time is not related to watches!
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope. Therefore time is not related to nature.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Physics is a natural science.
>>>
>>> There is nothing natural in physics or any
>>> other domain of science. And time is not a
>>> natural entity - neither UTimeC, nor TimeAI,
>>> nor any of zone times nor any other time
>>> existing.
>>
>>
>> All natural sciences (like e.g. biology or cosmology) observe natural 
>> things, 
> 
> Are the measurement devices natural?
No

> 
> 
>> The realm within our influence is not really science, but - for 
>> instance- engineering.
> 
> For centuries physics is spreading that absurd
> crap of being a domain of a Higher Force outside
> of the  influence of - physicists. Time to grow
> up, maybe.

Well, possibly time is now in the domaine of influence of physicists.

But: most likely time-travelers will not tell anything about their 
inventions!

So, even if time-travel would in fact exist, it will be (most likely) 
not in the hands of (common) physicists.


> 
>>> You've never observed a time, you've
>>> just imagined it. Sorry.
>>
>> Well, possibly...
>>
>> BUT: we observe natural phenomena, which have a certain frequency.
> 
> No. We observe natural phenomena. Assigning
> "certain frequency" to them - is absolutely
> "our influence".

Well, ok...
> 
>> For instance, we observe day and night or the rythims of the seasons.
>>
>> These are natural phenomena and indicate, that nature does in fact use 
>> something, what we humans call 'time'.
> 
> No, they dont indicate anything like that.
> And what we humans call "time" is - what
> clocks indicate. Unrelated to nature at
> all.

No!!

Clocks measure time but are not time. Clocks are machines, which measure 
a certain quantity (time in this case).

This quantity 'time' is (of course) not created by clocks.

Actually clocks are a different kind of thing than time.

Time belongs to nature, while measuring devices belong to people.

TH