Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: The joy of Democracy
Date: 6 Oct 2024 03:12:27 GMT
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <lmedgrFkvjiU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <vd5195$edas$1@dont-email.me> <lltpunF4fseU2@mid.individual.net>
	<1smdnSjX3YoxgWf7nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com>
	<llv30aFa6uvU3@mid.individual.net> <vdegh3$29fjc$1@dont-email.me>
	<851708060.749423067.699188.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
	<vdfciv$2dsh2$5@dont-email.me> <lm2vc3Fsii5U3@mid.individual.net>
	<vdhreq$2t1fi$9@dont-email.me> <lm3q5iF22lmU1@mid.individual.net>
	<vdid9i$3380h$5@dont-email.me> <lm4b3dF4bfnU3@mid.individual.net>
	<vdj0c1$35s7u$1@dont-email.me> <lm5bn4F93p4U6@mid.individual.net>
	<vdjura$39db1$16@dont-email.me> <lm602dFbv9iU4@mid.individual.net>
	<713621693.749610105.279918.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>
	<lm6dakFe1duU3@mid.individual.net> <vdlphg$3m9qg$1@dont-email.me>
	<vdn5ev$3ssv4$13@dont-email.me> <baGLO.171176$EEm7.112745@fx16.iad>
	<vdndbp$3uaeh$1@dont-email.me> <DgVLO.194309$1m96.19410@fx15.iad>
	<vdpj14$bgk6$9@dont-email.me> <lmbcrmF70h3U2@mid.individual.net>
	<slrnvg33dg.162fi.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net FaoS/iK3PYWLzautLW2KYgX+at0yJWFXSk+W0PboPI+lwIoijM
Cancel-Lock: sha1:XV9qYVYPJKzo1fbMn38C+zNQP6s= sha256:/fMn/ZxwVQtSY4uSWHuvdSdJU6/2O5H0fdPN9+FP7Is=
User-Agent: Pan/0.149 (Bellevue; 4c157ba)
Bytes: 4450

On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 19:04:16 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

> Ranked choice eliminates the "wasted vote" issue with third parties, and
> can allow a startup party to gradually become viable. And it tends to
> drive the candidates towards the center. If the "top four" are all
> republicans, the winner will be the one who is least offensive to the
> minority democrats.

I will vote for the initiatives but I really don't think it will have much 
effect. I received the voter information pamphlet today. It's put out by 
the Montana secretary of state and for initiatives it has the text of the 
initiative, arguments for and against, and the rebuttals. 

The problem it's trying to solve is somewhat unique to Montana. There 
isn't the concept of being a registered Republican or whatever. For this 
years primary I received 4 ballots, Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, and 
Green. Fill out one and discard the other three.

Suppose I pick the Democrat ballot but feel that for a particular office 
the Green candidate is better. Can't do it. There's another little facet. 
Suppose I'm a Libertarian. Their ballot often only has one person for each 
office so there's no need to fill it out. I can fill out the Republican 
ballot and select what I feel is the worst candidate.

Those against the initiative point out that with one primary ballot with 
everyone on it you might have 13 candidates for dog catcher, 4 
Republicans, 5 Democrats, and 2 each Libertarian and Green. Good luck 
sorting that mess out.

Then in the general election you get the top 4. From the historic patterns 
the Greens and Libertarians won't make it. As is they struggle to get 
enough votes to even stay on the ballots. State wide I think the Democrats 
will get the short end so you might have 3 Republican dog catcher 
candidates and 1 Democrat. It's a purple state so you can get odd results. 
I forget which was which but for a while the governor and lieutenant 
governor were from different parties. 

The connected initiative requires a majority, not a plurality. That seems 
like a recipe for a least one run off for almost every office.

The other objection which I can't evaluate completely is that both 
initiatives were heavily funded by out of state interests rather than a 
real grass roots attempt and that the interests are trying to use Montana 
for an experiment. If it devolves into a fiasco they can say 'well that 
was interesting' and leave Montana to pay for the clean up.

> By the way - which state are you in?

Montana. With a total population of about 1 million this tail isn't 
wagging any dogs. Nationally only the Senate race is attracting interest 
-- and a lot of out of state money.