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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Daytime running light popularity
Date: 1 Nov 2024 11:32:30 GMT
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Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 10/31/2024 9:04 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> I see cyclists
>>> attempting to mandate helmets, daytime lights, an such. Krygowski is
>>> correct in that protectionist do-gooders are out there...  
> 
> There certainly are.
> 
>>> although he
>>> doesn't understand that he is one of them.
> 
> Absolute bullshit, as usual. What have I ever tried to mandate?
> 
> And I could give details about steps I've taken to prevent mandates, in 
> regional and statewide meetings with legislators, etc. But of course, 
> I'd be accused of bragging.
> 
>> I’ve
>> not seen any calls for daytime bike light regulation, 
> 
> I do know of one Ohio bike club that mandates blinky taillights for all 
> its rides. I learned that when I was researching to prevent our local 
> club from mandating helmets on its rides. I did win that argument, BTW. 
> Our club recommends helmets (as if that's necessary) but does not 
> mandate them.
> 
I have seen clubs ask for helmets and lights, but that’s rather different
to country legislation after all club riders are fairly low % of cyclists
in general.

> And that's the general progression on these issues. People like 
> S.M.Scharf will post here "Of course, all the intelligent people use 
> DRLs - or helmets - or ride only in bike lanes, or whatever.
> 
> Then people begin to scorn those who make other choices, even if those 
> people can present very good evidence to defend their choice.
> 
> Then people begin to make mandates for events they control, such as 
> event rides. And some of them might express support for applying the 
> rule to all riders.
> 
The uk hill climb and Time trials organisers (separate) both require lights
and helmets, but not encountered events requiring lights.

Considering that lots of roadies out on the weekend don’t have lights or
run them, requiring would make one rather unpopular. And quite frankly
probably be ignored.

> Some of those people develop a missionary spirit and lobby for such 
> laws. Manufacturers and other companies are happy to "generously donate" 
> for "safety" laws that will mandate purchase of their products 
> (styrofoam hats, special lights) or services (bike trap designs).
> 
> Most avid cyclists won't really object, because they a) are ignorant of 
> the relevant science, and b) have already bought every possible 
> accoutrement for their bike, including what's mandated. And regarding 
> facilities, they believe any bike facility is a good bike facility.
> 
>> helmet regulation
>> certainly in the uk always fails on the for a population the evidence
>> suggests zero effect so the cost of regulation and enforcement isn’t
>> warranted.
> 
> And yet, helmet mandates are in place in a fair number of countries. In 
> the U.S., they apply to kids in many states. They apply to all ages in a 
> few U.S. cities, etc.
> 
> Don't pretend that helmet mandates are impossible. Don't pretend that 
> bicyclist rights to the road are never going to be challenged.
> 
> 
Much like Wolfgangs mandatory cycle infrastructure that is political, I get
the impression that passing states laws is somewhat easier ie someone with
a “bright idea” can get it done, certainly in uk nothing is a devolved as
that, so getting helmets legislation though or any legislation requires
effort and time, hence it’s always failed in the uk, I think might be
required in one of the Channel Islands or maybe only below 16?

Roger Merriman