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From: Catrike Rider <soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Patching TPU innertube
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 04:08:40 -0500
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On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 23:16:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/30/2024 10:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On 12/28/2024 6:35 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/28/2024 12:43 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>> On 12/27/2024 9:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 12/27/2024 2:01 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/27/2024 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given what I've read about violins (Stradivarius can't be told 
>>>>>>> from modern ones in blind hearing tests) 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> horseshit. Someone with training and experience can most certainly 
>>>>>> tell the difference in the tonal quality between a Stradivarius and 
>>>>>> even a high quality modern violin.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strads-fall- 
>>>>> modern-violins-blind-sound-check
>>>>
>>>> Which doesn't support your claim. You wrote "Stradivarius can't be 
>>>> told from modern ones in blind hearing tests", The article states:
>>>>
>>>> "the 82 listeners in the test reported that the new violins projected 
>>>> better"
>>>>
>>>> "asked subjects which of the two violins in a pairing they preferred. 
>>>> Listeners chose the new violins over the old"
>>>>
>>>> Yes, they could tell the difference.
>>>
>>> This question has been studied many, many times, for decades. The 
>>> consistent results are that players or audience can't tell the 
>>> difference.
>>>
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/science/a-strad-violinists-cant- 
>>> tell.html
>> 
>> Paywalled
>> 
>>>
>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/elite-violinists-fail- 
>>> distinguish-legendary-violins-modern-fiddles
>> 
>> "The consistency of results from session to session showed that soloists 
>> could definitely distinguish one violin from another. However, the 
>> soloists seemed to prefer the new violins, the researchers report online 
>> today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."
>> 
>> Yes, they can tell the difference.
>> 
>> 
>>>
>>> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/violinists-cant- 
>>> tell- the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones
>> 
>> The science.org piece also references the test noted here.
>> 
>>>
>>>>>>> and wines (cheap wines really light up pleasure centers in the 
>>>>>>> brain if tasters are told the wine is expensive),
>>>>>>
>>>>>> more horseshit. Someone with training and experience can certainly 
>>>>>> tell the difference in the flavor profiles, especially if you tried 
>>>>>> to dupe them with a Gallo.
>>>>> https://money.com/expensive-price-tag-cheap-wine-brain-placebo-effect/
>>>>
>>>> Which again doesn't support the claim that people couldn't tell the 
>>>> difference. It also doesn't state what qualifications the tasters 
>>>> had, if any. I've had crappy $100 bottles of wine and excellent $25 
>>>> bottles of wine. Flavor preference is not the same than as "can't 
>>>> tell the difference".
>>>
>>> If "telling the difference" is the same as "succumbing to the placebo 
>>> effect," you've got a point. 
>> 
>> Do you really think it does?
>> 
>>> Otherwise, no.
>> 
>> we disagree. You're claim was "can't tell the difference". Everything 
>> you posted to this point notes differences were detected - maybe not to 
>> conventional wisdom, but differences were detected nonetheless.
>OK, I yield. They could tell one violin did not sound precisely like 
>another. But they could not tell which was the Strad, which was really 
>my point.
>
>IOW, they could not detect the supposedly unduplicable sound quality, 
>the factor that causes Strads to sell for millions of dollars more than 
>modern violins.

Even after seeing the election results last november, some people
continue to believe that "studies" based on sample polling produce
accurate data.