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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: 1972 Legnano in the news
Date: 11 Nov 2024 16:15:10 GMT
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Message-ID: <lpeoseF1jibU1@mid.individual.net>
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John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10 Nov 2024 14:46:29 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
> 
>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10 Nov 2024 11:23:20 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10 Nov 2024 10:27:50 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 10 Nov 2024 04:29:51 -0500, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 10 Nov 2024 00:38:19 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 09 Nov 2024 22:35:57 +0100, Wolfgang Strobl
>>>>>>>>>> <news5@mystrobl.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sat, 9 Nov 2024 15:13:53 -0600 schrieb Mark J cleary
>>>>>>>>>>> <mcleary08@comcast.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/9/2024 2:28 PM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Sat, 9 Nov 2024 10:06:26 -0600 schrieb Mark J cleary
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mcleary08@comcast.net>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2024 9:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/8/2024 8:49 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Check the photos here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-14061289/Emmy-award-
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winner-1970s-sitcom-unrecognizable-77-bikes-LA.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whoa! Exposed cables! Down tube friction shifting! Center pull brakes!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 36 spoke wheels! Full sized frame pump! And she's not in a "protected"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bike lane! Is it even possible to ride that way?  ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "She adhered to safety regulations by having a black helmet on, wore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pink trainers and had a red jacket tied around her waist" is nonsense.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no helmet regulation that applies to her.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And the jacket around her waist is not a particularly good idea,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although it's at least better than tying it around the handlebars. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know a guy who did that and had a sleeve dangle into his front wheel.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> His next couple seconds were far from fun.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Generally it is much safer to wear a helmet although no breaking a laws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by not wearing one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So why don't you wear a helmet while walking or while driving your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> car*)?  People die while walking and as drivers or passengers of cars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure why a black helmet is better
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some fetishs work only when blessed by a druid and when the color
>>>>>>>>>>>>> complements the aureola.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and tying things around your waist is not a good idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Indeed. Especially, when the bike has a rack.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Better to simply leave the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra clothes on and sweat. That would be safer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Questionable. With additional clothing, a fast rider sweats more, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> less. The sweat just does not cool the rider if it is absorbed by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clothing. Overheating harms concentration, which might become dangerous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Long pants are a better idea if you go down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Light clothing does not protect much, but can contaminate a wound.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Depending on the speed, it can even cause burns.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Winter clothing on a sunny day seems excessive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But let's get realistic. Who expects press photos like these to be taken
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a real bike tour?  What do we know about the journey for which this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> clothing was intended? Only two accessories irritate me here: the helmet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the shoelaces. Bicycle helmets are a misunderstanding and open
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shoelaces next to a chainring are dangerous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *) I assume you don't, sorry if you do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I always wear a helmet and if you don't want to wear one it is free 
>>>>>>>>>>>> county, don't wear one. I am not about to argue just that I wear a helmet.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, you argued. You wrote "Generally it is much safer to wear a
>>>>>>>>>>> helmet", see above.  Which specific country are you talking about? There
>>>>>>>>>>> are countries enforcing helmet laws for cyclists.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> My question referred to whether you wear a helmet when you walk or use a
>>>>>>>>>>> car. Isn't it generally much safer to wear a helmet when walking or
>>>>>>>>>>> using a car? 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Why does anyone care if other people wear a helmet?  I sure don't.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As with number of things particularly religion and politics people do seem
>>>>>>>>> to care intensely what others do!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Personally as long as it doesn?t harm others, crack on as you were!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Helmets also fit into the simple but wrong vs complicated and right sort of
>>>>>>>>> thing. And definitely not the sort of thing that should be legislated sadly
>>>>>>>>> some places have gone that way, and some organisations just can?t help
>>>>>>>>> themselves in a something must be done sort of way.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Luckily the uk political and cultural norms means that attempts to get it
>>>>>>>>> legislated have always failed as the time and effort for a government to
>>>>>>>>> give time to a bill vs the benefits, means even if it gets a MP to raise
>>>>>>>>> it, it doesn?t pass.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The world would be a better place if nanny governments would stop 
>>>>>>>> passing laws for the individual's own good; basically if everyone
>>>>>>>> would simply mind their own business.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And when the next 5 year kid runs out in front of a car and ends up a
>>>>>>> greasy spot on the road people will be shouting, "THERE OUT TO BE A
>>>>>>> LAW!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> That for me hits the causes others harm, as positive as motor vehicles are,
>>>>>> do need some regulation to keep the negatives lower.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>> 
>>>>> Which is what the helmet advocates argue. And what the anti alcohol
>>>>> people did and , and, and...
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> No helmets only affect the person wearing it, doesn?t increase risks or not
>>>> to 3rd parties like motor vehicles.
>>> 
>>> Err..  you are single I assume but if you are not and your 5 year old
>>> child rides a bicycle ?
>> 
>> I was Married that is but am a widower now, but either way children wearing
>> a helmet isn’t going to effect 3rd parties, only American football where
>> players use the helmets as battering rams which is one unintended
>> consequence.
> 
> You seem to have lost the part of my post "when the next 5 year kid
> runs out in front of a car and ends up a greasy spot on the road
> people will be"
> 
> Does that imply that you wouldn't care whether your 5 year old
> daughter (if you had one) is run over?
>  
> 
In what way would you think that? On the whole I believe that motorists
bring the risks so should be making allowances for that.

Likewise traffic engineers the roads that do kill people and kids regularly
are the big wide open roads though built up areas have some near work, and
they have disproportionately high pedestrian death and injuries rates.

As ever you get what you build for.
>> 
>> Rugby the move to professional vs amateur and massively upscaling of the
>> players and hence the impacts has had effects on brain injuries.
>>> 
>>>> And yes as CatTrike has noted plenty of other sports where helmets may or
>>>> may not be used. Let alone various other types of mobility where helmets
>>>> are used or not from scooters and so on.
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