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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Todays rant
Date: 14 Dec 2024 16:52:01 GMT
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AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 12/14/2024 8:23 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:59:41 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 12/13/2024 8:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 12/13/2024 4:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 1:15 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   The vast majority of the mass shootings that target
>>>>>>> random victims in schools, malls, and theaters aren't
>>>>>>> committed by people with a violent past, so the argument
>>>>>>> that 'they never committed violence before' is pretty
>>>>>>> much irrelevant to the context of this conversation.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yes, I realize there have been a number of instances  at
>>>>>>> clubs, bars, and parties where it seems to be related to
>>>>>>> gang activity. Those aren't' the types of incidents we're
>>>>>>> discussing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes I agree.  The bulk of 'mass shooting' events are
>>>>>> tangential to ongoing criminal activity; at a party, in a
>>>>>> bar, drive-by in front of a crowd, etc.  Utterly different
>>>>>> problem (with different possible resolutions) than a
>>>>>> deranged but determined homicidal maniac.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can't think of a deterrent/preventive strategy except
>>>>>> for maybe public execution and I hesitate to assume even
>>>>>> that would dissuade Son of Sam, Nikolas Cruz, Richard
>>>>>> Ramirez, Stephen Paddock, Jeffrey Dahmer, or their ilk.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One suggestion might be to look at the social conditions in
>>>>> nations similar to the U.S. but with far fewer killings,
>>>>> especially gun killings, per capita. Emulate what they do.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This
>>>>> Regularly Happens"
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-
>>>>> nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I do not have a snappy solution.
>>>> 
>>>> some context:
>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/1386759/mass-shootings-us-other-developed-world/
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
>>> 
>>> Even if all the "assault weapons" were rounded up and destroyed, it
>>> wouldn't stop the mass murders nor any other murders. There are too
>>> many other ways to do it.
>>> 
>>> Where there's a will, there's a way. The problem is there are people
>>> with the will.
>> 
>> It’s much much harder without a gun and particularly a gun that can be
>> rapidly fired.
>> 
>> Mass murders by other means are not impossible but that much harder and can
>> be stopped by brave unarmed people as with the children killed in the uk
>> this summer, which was used by various right wing groups to inspire riots
>> by well lying!
>> 
>> But the suspect was slowed by one of the nursery workers I think she died
>> from her injuries but she was able to slow/prevent and a colleague got help
>> from the Gym? Anyway a large chap who subdued the attacker.
>> 
>> Don’t get me wrong I suspect that it would require more than just removing
>> easy access to guns etc, but even that almost certainly would have dramatic
>> effects.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> C'est bon
>>> Soloman
>>> 
>> 
>> Roger Merriman
> 
> Well, yes to some extent.
> 
> In the instant example from NYC, Mr Mangione, an engineer, 
> originally planned to make a bomb but decided the risk of 
> injury/death to people other than his target was too high so 
> he made his own firearm and suppressor with a 3D printer. 
> Good luck 'regulating' a capable determined psychopath.
> 
> Anyone with basic machining skills can make a Sten. The 
> simple open bolt action design is at the top end of firing 
> rates for automatics:
> https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/guns-and-parts-seized-man-arrested-in-weapons-raids/news-story/e7addecb691695b3aebdb5b613181132

I’m sure they could but that’s not the path of least resistance ie to use
the gun they own.
> 
> Although the path of least resistance has changed to 3D print:
> https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/14/australia/australia-3d-printed-firearm-intl-hnk/index.html

I believe that’s more criminals trying to avoid detection, than being
actively used at least in the mass killings.
> 
> Criminals shooting each other and the innocents nearby are a 
> real problem. That problem, within bounds of rationality, 
> likely has solutions for mitigation. A madman determined to 
> kill will not be deterred by licensing/prohibition.

Places that have removed guns or from general circulation suggest otherwise
plus police actions.

Ie in the uk use of gun means as criminals you’ve instantly made yourself
UK most wanted, let alone your chance of survival if the armed police
encounter you.
> 
> A short walk through the history of anarchist and insurgent 
> bombings shows huge losses.

Occasionally yes, but it’s much harder work and much less numbers certainly
per year.
> 
> p.s. regarding 'rapid'
> Modern semi rifles and pistols fire all within the same rate 
> range, which is lower than revolvers BTW and much slower 
> than even primitive home built automatics
> 
Indeed any gun control would almost certainly target those. As happens in
various countries.

Roger Merriman