Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!news2.arglkargh.de!news.karotte.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Montana: "Let's make stupidity mandatory!"
Date: 17 Jan 2025 14:15:17 GMT
Lines: 211
Message-ID: <luv6vlF9i0hU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <vlucc7$no2f$1@dont-email.me>
 <lug4mgFpjv6U1@mid.individual.net>
 <vm451d$22j2f$1@dont-email.me>
 <vm4i4q$24jb4$1@dont-email.me>
 <vm6t2c$2kn8p$1@dont-email.me>
 <7ORhP.796214$DYF8.668936@fx14.iad>
 <c71gojd4tdvlc125jqm3lvk53a22rs62hk@4ax.com>
 <vm944i$33bk6$1@dont-email.me>
 <vm9g32$35ll5$2@dont-email.me>
 <vm9h7s$35fip$2@dont-email.me>
 <vm9qro$371vt$6@dont-email.me>
 <mhqhojhvcvs8b16669qs0g4tqseqv8ai3c@4ax.com>
 <vmb537$3hj9k$4@dont-email.me>
 <vmbcln$3iko8$7@dont-email.me>
 <vmbfrf$3jg90$2@dont-email.me>
 <vmbl2g$3ke7f$1@dont-email.me>
 <vmbm4e$3kkv8$4@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net Fb3L9vtfC7NL/Js43JsfuwYl12O/MObOCgnJfgFv1TDnsJNybe
Cancel-Lock: sha1:MeGRk7QABgZA4YOcfUd6/FRaUs0= sha1:mi7DrLWtEC4jT3LKRDWcI94kDEE= sha256:rdmDEsn/D7U2CWoUiYN2ibvIOQC2xwvTLpcSSWSyjYA=
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPad)
Bytes: 9850

AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 1/16/2025 1:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 1/16/2025 12:32 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2025 10:38 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2025 9:28 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>> On 1/16/2025 5:25 AM, Shadow wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 21:28:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
>>>>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/15/2025 6:43 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2025 5:24 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2025 3:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/15/2025 1:02 PM, Shadow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jan 2025 16:57:39 GMT, cyclintom 
>>>>>>>>>>> <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> <about who is responsible for running over cyclists>
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is especially common among illegals here in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> California with these
>>>>>>>>>>>> assholes laying on the horn even when yoyu're 
>>>>>>>>>>>> nowhere near them.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>      The only solution is to raise taxes the rich 
>>>>>>>>>>> pay. Then you
>>>>>>>>>>> could fund essential services like the police, and 
>>>>>>>>>>> any unlawful
>>>>>>>>>>> extraterrestrial will be promptly arrested for 
>>>>>>>>>>> driving without a
>>>>>>>>>>> license. And shuttled back to Mars or whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>      Problem solved. Plus there might even be some 
>>>>>>>>>>> money left to
>>>>>>>>>>> pay for medical services, education and your 
>>>>>>>>>>> welfare checks.
>>>>>>>>>>>      []'s
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Without regard to this argument per se, isn't your 
>>>>>>>>>> preferred solution
>>>>>>>>>> to everything "Tax the rich" ?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> It's a good one. How much money do Musk, Bezos, etc. 
>>>>>>>>> really need? For
>>>>>>>>> what?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> You've written that previously.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've noted previously that the top 10% of earners 
>>>>>>>> represent over half of
>>>>>>>> income tax revenue:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/MPowG/5/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In California where policy is closer to your tastes, 
>>>>>>>> the problem of
>>>>>>>> collecting revenues shows the complex mix of factors:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/leaving-rich- 
>>>>>>>> americans- ditching-
>>>>>>>> california-163000441.html
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Note in link, "Ultra-wealthy Californians, the top 
>>>>>>>> 1%, typically pay
>>>>>>>> between 40-50% of the state’s personal income tax 
>>>>>>>> revenue."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd say the solution is for the competing states to 
>>>>>>> raise their upper
>>>>>>> level tax rates.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I ask again, how much is enough? What's the limiting 
>>>>>>>> principle?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How much personal wealth is enough? Why is there no 
>>>>>>> limit?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm reminded about a parable about a poor widow 
>>>>>>> contributing two tiny
>>>>>>> coins, a trivial amount, but “Truly I tell you, this 
>>>>>>> poor widow has put
>>>>>>> more into the treasury than all the others. They all 
>>>>>>> gave out of their
>>>>>>> wealth; but she, out of her poverty, put in everything 
>>>>>>> — all she had to
>>>>>>> live on.”
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Taxing the wealthy and super-wealthy means they may 
>>>>>>> have to put off
>>>>>>> buying their hundredth bottle of Chateau Lafite 
>>>>>>> Rothschild (whose taste
>>>>>>> they probably can't reliably distinguish anyway). 
>>>>>>> Taxing the poorer
>>>>>>> people means they have to put off buying a can of soup.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So let's emulate the tax structures of prosperous 
>>>>>>> countries with far,
>>>>>>> far less income disparity. I believe those policies 
>>>>>>> contribute to much
>>>>>>> better social services, much lower crime and unrest, 
>>>>>>> better paved roads,
>>>>>>> free medical care, etc.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     LOL. Right wingers are psychopaths. by definition. 
>>>>>> The reason
>>>>>> why humans became the most powerful beings on Earrth is 
>>>>>> because their
>>>>>> innate socialism (the willingness to share, to help 
>>>>>> others even if it
>>>>>> meant suffering a bit) was stronger than their egoism.
>>>>>>     It's impossible to convince a right winger to be 
>>>>>> "human". His
>>>>>> brain is not capable of being one.
>>>>>>     []'s
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>     PS Bezos never produced anything in his life. He 
>>>>>> just passed
>>>>>> on other people's goods and took a very large cut. He 
>>>>>> also pays the
>>>>>> smallest salaries possible. Rather a bad example of 
>>>>>> someone that
>>>>>> should continue evading tax.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Humans do organize and create language, universally. 
>>>>> You're right on that. But dramatic increases in 
>>>>> prosperity, invention, development and human flourishing 
>>>>> generally result from private property rights and 
>>>>> individual effort.
>>>> Strongly progressive tax systems - that is, much higher 
>>>> taxes on the very wealthy - do not deter individual 
>>>> effort. They do not materially hinder private property 
>>>> rights. People in (e.g.) New Zealand are not worried that 
>>>> their homes will be taken.
>>>> 
>>>> And speaking of that issue, which is the most important 
>>>> private property issue: What developed country is most 
>>>> likely to see a citizen's home taken from them?
>>>> 
>>>> I suspect it's the U.S.  One major cause of homelessness 
>>>> is personal bankruptcy, caused by catastrophic medical fees.
>>>> 
>>>> How much would Elon Musk have to pay in taxes to make him 
>>>> homeless?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> It is not and that flawed analysis is why LA, after 
>>> literally billions wasted on 'homeless' has more than ever.
>> 
>> It's hard to find data, but if not a major cause, medical 
>> debt is often a contributor. "At the Community Economic 
>> Defense Project, or CEDP, a Denver nonprofit that helps 
>> people facing eviction or home foreclosure, about two-thirds 
>> of clients have medical debt, an informal survey by KFF 
>> Health News and the organization suggests. Close to half of 
>> the nearly 70 people surveyed said medical debt played a 
>> role in their housing issue, with about 1 in 6 saying it was 
>> a major factor."
>> 
>> https://www.npr.org/sections/health- 
>> shots/2023/09/11/1198534328/medical-debt-housing-security- 
>> homelessness
>>> 
>>> Bums want alcohol and dope. They do not want shelter, or 
>>> food, or anything else until or unless alcohol and dope 
>>> are plentiful. 
>> 
>> Perhaps similarly, it's a mistake to pretend that the 
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========