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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: tubes vs tubeless? you decide.
Date: 17 Feb 2025 01:25:39 GMT
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Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 2/16/2025 12:51 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
>> On 2/16/2025 9:54 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/16/2025 4:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>> An article on Cycling News
>>>> 
>>>> https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/i-use-inner-tubes-on- all-my- 
>>>> road-bikes-heres-why-i-still-havent-embraced-tubeless/
>>>> 
>>>> It's a long read, and not very well written (imho), but I generally 
>>>> agree with the points he makes.
>>> 
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> It's an immature technology (relying on what a former RBT contributor 
>>> called "frog snot") but it has its place.  That place is observed 
>>> trials, with ridiculously fat tires under ridiculously close to zero 
>>> pressure with a lot of irregular bashing and twisting.  Tubes pinch 
>>> and shift in that environment.  The more your riding mimics that, the 
>>> more tubeless works for you.
>>> 
>> 
>> I agree with guy completely. In fact I am not a retro grouch at all but 
>> some things on bikes have not proven to be all that much better. 
>> Tubeless tires for one. I rarely have flats and I don't deal with 
>> sealant and setting up tires. I can swap out a tire and tube in a hurry 
>> and if I flat a new tube on the road to get back. My tubes have multiple 
>> patches and last for years. My road bike riding is all on pavement. I am 
>> not going around gravel and bad surfaces unless I am forced by mistake.
>> 
>> Along with this I will mention another item that at least for me has 
>> limited benefit. I don't like cables buried in the tubes. THE standard 
>> exposed cables are quire easy to change out and until they manage making 
>> buried cables as easy as exposed I rather opt out.
>> 
>> My next list is the infamous press fit BB. I have BSA threaded and even 
>> some manufactures have come back to this standard. Much more reliable 
>> and almost no maintenance ever needed. Buy a new BB and go forward.
>> 
>> I will say the disk brakes are better and while rim brakes work fine 
>> disk allow better stopping in rain and when in mountains and such. They 
>> also allow bigger tires and less concern for wheel setup.
>> 
>> OK I am done but never a tubeless for me
> 
> Agreed. It seems that fashion often transforms "better under this very 
> limited circumstance" to "You gotta have this!!!"
> 
> Really, most "modern" examples of bicycling fashion are chasing 
> diminishing performance benefits. Any decent quality bicycle is an 
> amazingly efficient machine. Aero cables, fancy bottom brackets, 
> tubeless tires give practically unmeasurable performance benefits.
> 
I’d note that tubeless tyres do seem to be fairly easy to measure increased
performance, latex tubes are close though you’d need to pump them up
regularly, TPU is close to latex though seems more like Butyl in terms of
air loss.

Butyl is certainly measurably slower than Tubeless as to if you care?
Clearly I don’t as 3 out of the 4 bikes I have tubes! You also can at least
with supple tyres feel the difference, at least between Butyl and
TPU/tubeless potentially latex I guess but never used them.

> And I suspect a fair number of tubeless setups are bought by people who 
> never learned to fix a flat.

Flat phobic folks in my experience just go for tyres more to the
training/touring side, as going Tubeless is fair investment in time and
effort even if you get someone else to do the work.

Ie don’t just get a new bike with tubeless, unless one asked or its set up
for the customers once the bike is bought etc.

Advantages are in theory one can ride nicer tyres even for commuting/winter
riding without having to use less supple but more puncture resistant tyres,
personally doesn’t seem something worth considering for my road bike, even
if it had tubeless ready rims for that use case tubes and more beefy tyres
seem a better choice.
> 
> But I'm an admitted retrogrouch.
> 
Not the only one on this thread to be fair! ;-) 

Roger Merriman