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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Helmet efficacy test
Date: 31 Mar 2025 14:33:15 GMT
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Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
> Am 31.03.2025 um 13:39 schrieb Roger Merriman:
>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>> Am 28.03.2025 um 22:22 schrieb Roger Merriman:
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 28 Mar 2025 18:46:20 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2025 22:48:13 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 14:45:14 +0100, Rolf Mantel
>>>>>>>>> <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Am 27.03.2025 um 14:36 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 14:17:43 +0100, Rolf Mantel
>>>>>>>>>>> <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 27.03.2025 um 13:43 schrieb John B.:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27 Mar 2025 11:49:09 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 10:46 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 3:32 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/26/2025 12:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On average, bicycling is safer than walking by all those metrics. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obviously don't believe that,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't? My, how kunich-esque of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you should explicitly state your positions. As it is, you now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seem to be implying that you do think bicycling is safer than walking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet you apparently think that bicyclists get great value from special
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protective hats, but pedestrians don't need them. Those two points seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inconsistent.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So am I misinterpreting your views? What exactly are your views?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My view is that helmets work. Wear them if you feel you need to extra
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> protection. Don't wear them if you don't feel that need.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I find them useful off road as bush protection if like myself one rides the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> path less traveled aka overgrown! So I can essentially use my the helmet to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push through said bushes!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On road which for me largely is commuting, It provides eye protection with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the visor from rain/hail and so on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s also quite handy as sort of man bag to put one?s keys/gloves etc at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cafe stop/shopping etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have no expectations of protection from motor traffic nor does population
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> studies seem to suggest that, bike infrastructure seems to do that ie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amsterdam and similar cyclists have much lower rates and so on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But UK isn?t likely to make this a legislation the hurdles to do so are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large, so I don?t feel forced or otherwise to use one, after all see plenty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of non helmeted cyclists about be they folks on hire bikes or some utility
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cyclists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It?s such a non issue at least here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think my reason for wearing a helmet was best :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My wife mentioned one day, "I'd feel better if you wore a helmet", so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went right out and  bought one. Which gave me a big edge in the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>> husband-wife argument.... "Well! When you wanted me to wear a helmet I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did....." (:-])
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> My answer was "High visibility is even more important. What about I buy
>>>>>>>>>>>> a bright yellow Gore cycling top?", killing two birds with one stone ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> A hundred dollars for a shirt? I don't think so.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> For a shirt that lasts 25 years that's value for money.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I have ordinary t-shirts older than that.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If not used much yes, I have clothes from last century and so on, but they
>>>>>>>> where not a 2 pound/dollar cheap t shirt, which if one handles them often
>>>>>>>> feel lighter, and don?t last.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> And that?s just general clothes let alone sports kit that will be washed
>>>>>>>> every time. Or used in abrasive useage be that wet gritty roads to full on
>>>>>>>> bog crossing with the MTB which is hard on kit.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The black Under Armor Heat Gear long sleeve shirt I wore biking today
>>>>>>> cost about $30.00. I'll bet it'll last as long as any of those hundred
>>>>>>> dollar shirts.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not sure where the 100 dollar shirt came from! The club kit etc might be
>>>>>> close to that, as it’s a short production run and so on, but my other
>>>>>> cycling tops closer to the 30 dollars, particularly if one buys at end of
>>>>>> seasons and so on, though as it lasts haven’t for a while, they can and do
>>>>>> occasionally get torn etc.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I saw shirts on their website for $200+ dollars. The cheapest one I
>>>>> saw was short sleeve for $65.
>>>> 
>>>> Gore is very classic roadie clothing ie cycling jerseys and so on, which
>>>> I’m not wild on, and yes some of the jerseys are expensive though if one
>>>> does a search are offers or just lower prices elsewhere in the 30 pound
>>>> range, though I think of Gore more for jackets and so on.
>>> 
>>> I said "Gore top", actually got
>>> <https://www.gorewear.com/de-de/phantom-windstopper-jacke-herren-100645?variant=1217>
>>> 
>>> Removable sleeves are a cool feature ;-)
>> 
>> Do you actually use that? Admittedly I don’t use arm or leg warmers, I’ll
>> unzip a jacket or similar. If like now it’s warm in the sun but the air is
>> still cool.
> 
> The jacket is perfect for wearing on the commute on top of "normal" 
> clothes (T-shirt/sweater) for temperatures from freezing up to approx 
> 20°C / 70F; above that it's T-shirt or cycling jersey on its own.
> 
> The sleeveless option mostly comes in as an extra layer for long fast 
> downhills when cycling jersey on its own is fine for the flat and uphill 
> parts.
> 
>> I seem to generally prefer run or cycle best with lower temperatures, i
>> rarely wear gloves for temperatures, as London doesn’t often get much below
>> zero.
> 
> I need cylcing gloves below approx 5°C / 40F; when it's freezing I 
> prefer skiing gloves for the first 15 minutes.
> This winter I experimented a bit with "dress warm for the first 15 
> minutes" vs. "dress cool for the second 15 mintues" (stopping to undress 
> halfway on the commute is not part of my mindset, opening the jacket or 
> removing the gloves is fine).
> 

As my commute is long enough I warm up so in general I wear gloves only for
comfort than temperatures, unless it’s well below freezing.

Take it fairly easy so do wear more than for a Gravel/MTB where I’ll be
working harder. Where I often don’t bother with gloves though does depend
on the route and terrain if it’s the high hills might slightly over dress
just in case, as well stuff happens on high lands in winter!

Roger Merriman