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From: Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Guess who?
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2025 07:27:35 +0200
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Am Donnerstag000010, 10.04.2025 um 19:46 schrieb x:
> On 4/9/25 23:26, Thomas Heger wrote:
>  > Am Mittwoch000009, 09.04.2025 um 11:04 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>  >> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> Am Montag000007, 07.04.2025 um 12:03 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>  >>>> Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> wrote:
>  >>>>
>  >>>>> On 3/12/25 4:16 PM, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>  >>>>>> FYA, all.
>  >>>>>> Who wrote this letter, and for whom was it intended?
>  >>>>>> (ten bonus points for the correct year)
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> ======
>  >>>>>> Herr Einstein is one of the most original minds that we have ever
>  >>>>>> met.
>  >>>>>> In spite of his youth he already occupies a very honorable position
>  >>>>>> among the foremost savants of his time.
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> What we marvel at him, above all, is the ease with which he adjusts
>  >>>>>> himself to new conceptions and draws all possible deductions from
>  >>>>>> them.
>  >>>>>> He does not cling to classic principles, but sees all conceivable
>  >>>>>> possibilities when he is confronted with a physical problem.
>  >>>>>> In his mind this becomes transformed into an anticipation of
>  >>>>>> new phenomena that may some day be verified in actual 
> experience....
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> The future will give more and more proofs of the merits of Herr
>  >>>>>> Einstein, and the University that succeeds in attaching him to 
> itself
>  >>>>>> may be certain that it will derive honour from its connection with
>  >>>>>> the
>  >>>>>> young master.
>  >>>>>> =======
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> Guess Who?
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>> Jan
>  >>>>>> (cheaters will be disqualified)
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>>
>  >>>>> This forged letter sounds like what Einstein himself would dictate
>  >>>>> to a
>  >>>>> "Whodat" type of Bozo to create a recommendation letter.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> So denialism is what it is for you.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> In the meantime I have dug up he original French text.
>  >>>> (not bad, for a forger who didn't speak French, Eh?)
>  >>>>
>  >>>> As for the letter: Einstein and Poincare had met for the first and 
> last
>  >>>> time at the Solvay conference, Oct. 30 to Nov. 2, 1911.
>  >>>> The letter of recommendation by Curie and Poincare to the ETH, 
> Zurich,
>  >>>> was written shortly afterwards.
>  >>>> Einstein's appointment at the ETH finally came through in July 1912.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> It is of course inconceivable that Poincare would have met 
> Einstein on
>  >>>> friendly terms at the Solvay, where he had lively discussions with 
> him,
>  >>>> (together with Lorentz) and that he would have written this letter of
>  >>>> recommendation if he had considered Einstein to be a mere plagiarist
>  >>>> of his own work.
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Jan
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Letter of Recommendatation
>  >>>> ====
>  >>>> M. Einstein est un des esprits les plus originaux que j'aie connus;
>  >>> ...
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>> ====
>  >>>> Signed,  Mme. Curie and Henri Poincaré
>  >>> translation by google
>  >>>
>  >>> "Mr. Einstein is one of the most original minds I have ever known;"
>  >>>
>  >>> Apparently Poincare knew Einstein in person, hence Einstein spoke
>  >>> French.
>  >>
>  >> Poincare no doubt had studied Einstein's publications,
>  >> and they met in person for thee days at the 1911 Solvay conference.
>  >> The letter of recommendation was written shortly after that.
>  >>
>  >>> But not only was Einstein able to speak French somehow, but apperently
>  >>> spoke French well.
>  >>
>  >> Good enough. It is a matter of record that Lorentz, Einstein, and
>  >> Poincare had long discussions at the Solvay conference.
>  >> The language in which is not known, probably a mix of French and 
> German.
>  >> Poincare was born in Nancy, Lorraine, close to the French-German 
> border.
>  >> His mother was born close to the French-Luxembourg border.
>  >> The whole Alsace-Lorraine region is effectively bi-lingual.
>  >> I guess that Poincare, who lived there until age 19,
>  >> could also speak German well enough.
>  >> He was certainly capable of reading German.
>  >> And in case of language problems Lorentz could interpret.
>  >>
>  >>> This little fact disturbed me already some time ago, since Einstein 
> was
>  >>> by no means a fast learner of any language (as can be seen in his poor
>  >>> performance in English after ten years at Princton).
>  >>
>  >> Not too bad, given that Einstein started learning and speaking English
>  >> when already in his fifties.
>  >>
>  >>> So: where did Einstein learn French?
>  >>
>  >> In high school, obviously, and in practice by living in Switzerland for
>  >> many years. (which is a tri-lingual country)
>  >>
>  >>> Most likely Einstein also spoke Italien, because his family lived in
>  >>> Pavia, Italy and Einstein spent some time there.
>  >>
>  >> Yes, that too, somewhat.
>  >>
>  >>> Now: German, Italian and French make a set of languages, which are
>  >>> spoken in Switzerland and no other country.
>  >>>
>  >>> The natural question would be, if Einstein had also other relations to
>  >>> Switzerland.
>  >>
>  >> Of course, he was a Swiss citizen, by choice.
>  >>
>  >>> Well, actually Einstein had a few:
>  >>>
>  >>> went to school in Aarau (Switzerland)
>  >>> went to university in Zurich (Switzerland)
>  >>> married, lived and worked in Bern (Switzerland)
>  >>> spent his live after retirement in Switzerland
>  >>> has Swiss citizenship
>  >>
>  >> Yes, yes, 'Einstein retiring to Switzerland'.
>  >> Your ability to invent historical 'facts' to suit your prejudices
>  >> remains amazing,
>  >
>  >
>  > There were certain stations in the life of Einstein, which simply didn't
>  > make sense:
>  >
>  > 1)Einstein remained alone in Germany, after his family moved to Italy.
>  > But since when is this allowed and even possible?
>  >
>  > 2) he quit school and went to Italy, after denouncing German citizenship
>  > as teenager (afaik at the age of 16).
>  > But Germans were (and are) a little burocratic and didn't care much
>  > about the wishes of teenagers.  So how could Einstein possily denouce
>  > German citizenship?
>  >
>  > 3) he went to Pavia, Italy, where his family lived. But he stayed there
>  > some month without attending school (the enighboring Jesuits wrote on
>  > their website, that Einstein stayed there for an entire year!).
>  > So Einstein missed at least a year in school. But why didn't he go to
>  > school, if he spoke already Italian?
>  >
>  > 4) He then went alone to Aarau in Switzerland and went to the Gymnasium
>  > there. But since when was it allowed (for unattended teenagers) to go to
>  > Gymnasium there, if they were stateless?
> 
> Four is easy.  Back then there were no computers denying everyone
> all sorts of things and tracking everything they did.
> 
> The population of the world had not increased to over 8 billion
> people with a lot of increase done in poor countries, and they
> gave few government handouts to persons who were called citizens.
> 
> Consider a place called the 'US'.  In 1895 Al Jennings had already
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