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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: rec tech mower
Date: 12 Apr 2025 13:43:07 GMT
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Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 21:58:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 11 Apr 2025 22:59:48 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Oh, and it occurs to me that Jeff should be the one answering your 
>>> question! He's probably done this sort of thing more than any of us.
>> 
>> I don't have the time.  Short version:
>> 
>> Troy-Bilt is a good brand of mower.  I guess "self propelled" means
>> you have a riding mower.  A model number would be helpful so I can
>> determine what type of engine you might be using.
>> 
>> 2 stroke engines (chain saw, blower, trimmer) are very different from
>> 4 stroke engines (generator, lawn mower, go cart, zero turn, lawn
>> tractor).
>> 
>> The basic difference is that you add oil to the gasoline on a 2 stroke
>> but not on a 4 stroke.  Unfortunately, there are 4 stroke chainsaws
>> and blower the require the addition of oil in the gas.  If you engine
>> has an oil sump, oil filler and drain plug, it's a 4 stroke.
>> 
>> Another difference is that 4 stroke carburetors have a fuel bowl while
>> 2 strokes do not have a fuel bowl.  If you're going to empty the fuel
>> system on a 4 stroke engine, don't forget to also empty the
>> carburetor.  Honda clone engines have a 2nd drain plug on the fuel
>> bowl for draining the fuel and any water that has accumulated.
>> 
>> Bad fuel is a common problem with anything that's been sitting for
>> more than about 3 months.  Humidity condenses water in the fuel bowl
>> and gasoline tank.  It takes very little water in either to prevent an
>> engine from starting.  Remove the fuel bowl and pour the gas into a
>> white coffee cup.  Allow about 15 mins for the water to settle to the
>> bottom of the tank.  You can see the dividing line between the water
>> and gas.  Water in the gasoline looks hazy until the water settles.
>> 
>> Old gas also smells very different than fresh gas.  If you don't like
>> smelling gas, just pour a few a small amount of gas on a brick or
>> metal plate and set fire to it.  Good gas will burn but old gas will
>> act like you're trying to burn water, which is why the old gas won't
>> burn.
>> 
>> You might have a "gel" problem, where old gasoline and fuel stabilizer
>> form a gelatinous goo that plugs up the carburetor.  I suggest you
>> avoid fuel stabilizer or cycle your mower gas through your automobile
>> every 6 months or so.  Carb cleaner will soften the gel, but is
>> difficult to remove from the passages, jets and emulsion tube from the
>> inside of the carburetor without using an ultrasonic cleaner.
>> 
>> Speaking of ultrasonic cleaner, mine is an MH-020A 3.2 Liter.
>> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/365401504638>
>> Avoid using a solvent type degreaser.  I use a minimal amount of
>> dishwashing soap (Dawn Platinum).  The water should be fairly hot (I
>> forgot the temp).  The work is done by cavitation bubbles, not
>> solvents.  If your aluminum carburetor turns dark grey or black, you
>> have either the wrong degreaser or too much degreaser.  Dark aluminum
>> won't hurt the engine but it does look awful.
>> 
>> I'm not going to recommend all the possible ways to test an engine to
>> see if it runs.  There are numerous videos available on how to start a
>> 4 stroke that won't start.  Basically:
>> 1.  Make sure the mower has oil in the sump.  All the Troy-Bilt mowers
>> have oil level switches that will kill the ignition if there's no oil.
>> 2.  Check for spark with a proper spark plug tester.  If the spark gap
>> looks "crusty" clean or replace the plug.
>> 3.  Disconnect the fuel line between the gas tank and the carb.
>> 4.  Replace it with a short (about 6") length of translucent fuel
>> line.  Fill the fuel line with fresh gas.  The fuel should fill the
>> line until the needle valve closes.  At that point, the fuel level
>> should remain constant and not go down.  If it does go down, the
>> needle valve and seat might need cleaning or replacement.
>> 5.  Remove the air box (and air filter).  Spray 1 short blast of
>> carburetor cleaner into the carb.  Just one blast or maybe two, but no
>> more.
>> 6.  Try to start the engine.  If everything is working, then it should
>> run for a few seconds and then die.
>> 7.  If you think it's running, then empty the gas tank into 2L soft
>> drink bottles.  Use a rag on a stick to mop up any remaining water. If
>> you don't want to do that, make a temporary fuel tank from an inverted
>> bottle, fuel line and fuel valve for testing.
>> 
>> There are all kinds of other things that could go wrong at this point.
>> Too much for me to explain tonight.
>> 
>> I've been watching YouTube videos from:
>> <https://www.youtube.com/@jcondon1/videos>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/@Chickanic>
>> James Condon knows 4 stroke engines, while "Chickanic" knows lawn
>> equipment.  Start with the more recent videos because both had a
>> rather long and painful learning curve when they started making
>> videos.  The videos that are less than about 5 years old are more
>> organized and useful.
>> 
>> So much for short version.
>> Good luck with the repair.
> 
> I was going to drop a little information about old gas, but then, I
> said to myself, "self, very soon, Mr. Liebermann will see this and
> provide a massive amount of information that will blow away anything I
> could have said. 
> 
> ...and you did, calling it a "short version." 
> 
> That information about Troy Built" engines having a low engine oil
> ignition block is interesting. Something that those of us who don't
> read user manuals would probably never have discovered. 
> 
> Kudos to you.
> 
> --
> C'est bon
> Soloman
> 

Heh I saw this and thought that’s a Jeff question!

Roger Merriman