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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Electric bicycles, social policy & culture
Date: 14 Apr 2025 17:18:15 GMT
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Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/14/2025 2:52 AM, Wolfgang Strobl wrote:
>> Am Thu, 10 Apr 2025 12:40:59 -0400 schrieb Frank Krygowski
>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>:
>> 
>>> On 4/10/2025 12:09 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/are-e-bikes-a-godsend-or-the-road-to-
>>>> perdition-an-amish-community-is-torn/ar-AA1CAple
>>> 
>>> A couple remarks:
>> ...
>> 
>>> Holmes County, Ohio is quite hilly. We did a weekend there, riding
>>> tandems with our best friends. One little side road marked the first
>>> time we ever had to dismount and walk a hill despite our tandem's low
>>> gearing. I can see why the Amish there would be motivated to accept
>>> electric assist.
>> 
>> Sure. Who wouldn't?   But how many people of those who switched from a
>> bicycle to a motorized bike during the last decade are Amish people?
>> Wikipedia tells me that only 0.12% of the US population are Amish, so as
>> a first guess I'd expect > 99% of e-bike users not to be Amish.
> 
> I think the Amish are always going to be a tiny, tiny percentage of 
> almost any phenomenon. It's sort of the point of their chosen existence, 
> to be a people apart from the norm.
> 
>>> Finally, while I'll never be Amish, I can admire that a culture has
>>> priorities other than "How much shit can we buy before we die?"
>>> Community is very important to the Amish, and community is a good thing.
>> 
>> But switching from bicycles to motorized bikes isn't a good thing in
>> general, especially not in a country known for their obesity crisis.
>> 
>> IMO, this is marketing for a motorized vehicle whose design mainly
>> consists of giving riders the illusion that they are riding a bicycle.
> 
> I understand your point. But speaking of "people apart": That's you and 
> me. At least in the U.S., but also in most other countries, avid 
> cyclists are a relatively rare breed. In general, people who build 
> purposeful exertion into their lifestyle are quite uncommon.
> 
> Yes, there are certain locations where geographic factors - natural or 
> built - make daily exertion more common. I'm thinking of dense towns 
> with mixed zoning, where one can still find a grocery shop and a 
> workplace within walking distance of most homes. But ISTM the trend in 
> the "westernized" world is to make those places less and less common. 
> And even in "developing" countries, as soon as a person can afford 
> something with a motor, they want to buy it to make getting around easier.
> 
Even in deepest Suburbia having a shops close by be that independent or
chain, that one can walk to get stuff, is common for European countries,
whose cities and larger towns have grown by merging with others.

Mainland Europe absolutely has Zoning as concept but it’s much less strict
and different types are able to be build or converted, UK doesn’t have
zoning and is somewhat an outlier.

But the totally separated zoning that the US does is very much also a US
only thing, Australia suburbs are certainly much less walkable than UK or
European but there certainly are corner shops/cafes etc within the suburbs
if not as many.

I pass a number of shops, of all sorts of different types on my commute and
it’s largely via Parks and a bypass!

> Those of us who push ourselves to use muscle power are similar to the 
> Amish. We impose voluntary restrictions on ourselves, for what we 
> perceive as our own good and the good of the community. We'll always be 
> unusual, unless the built environment changes greatly.
> 
The zoning isn’t an act of god as such and absolutely could be changed, so
folks could pop down the street to get some milk etc, it’s probably the
biggest thing that the US could do to help active travel etc.

Roger Merriman