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From: Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Thoughts on industrial design
Date: 29 Apr 2025 18:53:49 GMT
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Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 4/29/2025 4:32 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here in Northeast Ohio, it's difficult for a car to last that long even
>>> if given normal good care and driven infrequently. That would have
>>> described "the pinnacle of automotive achievement," the 1990 Honda Civic
>>> Station Wagon that I sold when it was over 21 years old. It was a quirky
>>> thing, fun to drive, efficient, with surprising carrying capacity. But
>>> "rust never sleeps" as Neil Young said. I'll skip the long list of
>>> seriously rusted bits that caused me to finally give up on the car. (But
>>> have you ever had a car's gas tank drop due to rusted and broken support
>>> straps?)
>> 
>> I’d be surprised if Ohio is any wetter than UK? Or Germany for that matter
>> depending on where, my old Volvo is rust free, to the best of my knowledge
>> don’t get any advisory during the MOT etc.
> 
> I think the difference is salt, especially road salt, plus our large 
> number of freeze-thaw cycles. Under Lake Erie is an immense reservoir of 
> rock salt: 
> https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2017/12/go_under_lake_erie_and_inside.html 
>  and it's used liberally on winter roads. It's very corrosive.
> 
I’d be surprised if the salt use was any more or less, temperatures
certainly at night are sub zero so gritters are out, I believe some of the
small little van/carts can as well, for pedestrians or bike infrastructure.

Clearly not so much in Wales where the distances are much greater and
population is for most part tiny so in that only the main roads get salted.

Even had structural damage due to salt on some old flyovers and so on! Ie
rusted the steel part of the steel reinforced concrete and so on!

>>> I have never had a problem figuring where my desired gear was. It
>>> may be because I seem to be very tolerant of gear ratios, cadences, etc.
>>> But my three friction shifting bikes all have essentially identical
>>> "half step" gearing, so I'm very, very used to that.
>>> 
>> 1 by even if not electronic is much easier system to use, with down or up
>> shift. And doesn’t get stuck between chainrings ie how much am I cross
>> chaining do I need to shift down and then up on the cassette hence my old
>> commute bikes 1-10 is lot more liveable with than the 3-9 which absolutely
>> had better range but for the commute was tedious.
>> 
>> The ability to drop a lot of gears with a double is useful I find and I
>> like the relatively low cost of 10s stuff and the gearing range with the
>> GRX rear mech.
> 
> My ancient "half step" is admittedly quirky. I think the system 
> originally arose back when derailleurs were far less capable and 
> precise. It was a way for those old derailleurs to get reasonably close 
> gear spacing and still have wide range available. For decades, "half 
> step plus granny" was the most capable touring gear setup. I liked it so 
> well I still have it on my most frequently ridden bikes.

The move has been largely away from the chainrings to the cassette ie
getting the range and so on there!

I think that a 1-12 would more or less give me similar gear range but would
for the Gravel/MTB also performance gains aren’t likely to be marginal bar
not having to manage the chainrings. Both bikes have fairly modern mech’s
with clutches and what not.
> 
> But it is quirky! One friend of mine who was, back then, the technical 
> guru of another bike club, claimed that it was impossible for women to 
> understand half step gearing. (!) He'd be pilloried for saying that today.
> 
> 
Rightly so to be honest!

Roger Merriman