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From: o1bigtenor <o1bigtenor@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: troglodytes
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2024 06:24:52 -0500
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On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 9:06=E2=80=AFPM Mike Dewhirst via Python-list <
python-list@python.org> wrote:

> On 14/08/2024 12:54 am, Michael Torrie via Python-list wrote:
> > On 8/13/24 3:24 AM, Robin Becker via Python-list wrote:
> >> I am clearly one of the troglodytes referred to in recent discussions
> around the PSF. I've been around in python land
> >> for far too long, my eyesight fails etc etc.
> >>
> >> I feel strongly that a miscarriage of justice has been made in the
> 3-month banning of a famous python developer from
> >> some areas of discourse.
> >>
> >> I have had my share of disagreements with others in the past and have
> been sometimes violent or disrespectful in emails.
> >>
> >> I might have been in the kill list of some, but never banned from any
> mailing lists.
> >>
> >> Honest dialogue is much better than imposed silence.
> >>
> >> -- grumblingly-yrs --
> >> Robin Becker
> > Agreed.  Here's a good summary of the issue:
> > https://chrismcdonough.substack.com/p/the-shameful-defenestration-of-ti=
m
> >
> > The PSF has really screwed this up.  Really embarrassing, frankly.  And
> > sad.
>
> I read Chris McDonough's defence of Tim Peters and he has convinced me.
> Not because of everything he said but because I have experience of
> committees. And other things.
>
> The problem is generational.
>
> Later generations can see the faults of earlier generations in brilliant
> hindsight. I certainly did.
>
> In my case, those earlier generations caused depressions and world wars.
> That was pretty bad wasn't it?
>
> Can I blame my ancestors for that? My great-grandparents were born in
> the second half of the 1800s; my grandparents in the late 1800s. They
> were undoubtedly responsible for WW1 and the great depression wouldn't
> you say?
>
> So my parents who grew up after WW1 and both fought in WW2 were forced
> to give the best years of their lives to the worst of times. Not their
> fault. In fact they were heroic to do all that and have me and my
> siblings starting in their mid-twenties.
>
> Here's the rub: they had serious faults and I could see them clearly -
> when I was in my twenties and having children of my own.
>
> I'll be 80 next year and I have a clearer perspective now.
>
> I now understand why the oldest known culture (60k+ years) survived
> intact for so long including the last few thousand years of trading
> between Australia and Asia and more recent centuries with Europe. It
> wasn't entirely due to isolation. In fact there were hundreds of
> separate nations and languages in Australia so no-one was all that
> isolated. They had traders and diplomats and warriors just like the rest
> of humanity.
>
> The difference isn't with them it is with us. We have lost what keeps
> them together. They respect their elders. We don't. They had to because
> their survival depended on lore and knowledge which was passed orally
> across generations.
>
> The real difference is the invention of the printing press and its
> successors right down to television and the internet.
>
> We no longer rely on our elders for knowledge.
>
> That has eroded respect.
>
> With each generation the erosion gets worse. When I was a child, my
> parents gave me a bike and a set of encyclopedia. They tested me on my
> knowledge and taught me other stuff too, which I can't remember now but
> I could look it up.
>
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