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From: Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com>
Newsgroups: comp.os.vms
Subject: Re: Clair Grant on VMS code base
Date: 04 Apr 2025 15:24:48 -0400
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Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes:

> On 2025-04-03, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>> On 4/3/2025 2:15 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> On 2025-04-01, Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
>>>> He looks at size 6.2 -> 7.2 -> 8.2 -> 9.2 and .mar vs .c 6.2 -> 9.2.

>>>> https://vmssoftware.com/resources/blog/2025-03-31-how-big-is-vms/

>>> How the hell does DCL have 30,000+ lines of code ? :-)
>>> (Even allowing for the fact most of it is in Macro-32)

>> Just for fun I downloaded bash and counted. 117 KLOC.

> Wow. I had no idea it was now that big. OTOH, bash has got a _lot_ more
> functionality in it than DCL does.

>>> Also, regarding those BLISS/Macro-32 figures across the various modules
>>> in general, I wonder how much smaller the code would have been if it had
>>> been written in C ?

>> C is a relative high LOC/FP language.

>> Most LOC/FP tables have C in the 100-125 range and macro-assembler
>> in the 200-250 range.

>> If we adjust for VAX instructions being more powerful/complex
>> than average ISA, add a random number and subtract wind speed I
>> will estimate the Macro-32 / C ratio to be around 1.5-1.75.

>> If you buy that then the DCL 33 KLOC would be 19-22 KLOC in C
>> to be compared with bash 117 KLOC.

> The problem with that analysis is what DCL does.

> It basically parses, validates, and executes commands it has been given.
> That is something which can be implemented a lot more easily and concisely
> in a HLL with abstracted data structure capabilities (which includes
> even C) than an assembly language with no such capabilities.

That also depends on the operating system environment.

TOPS-20, on later PDP-10 systems including clones, has a built in system call
COMND% which is a fully capable command parser which includes context sensitive
help, switch parsing, etc.

High-level languages on TOPS-20 have COMND% calls in their run time systems.

-- 
Rich Alderson					  news@alderson.users.panix.com
      Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
	  omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
									--Galen