Deutsch English Français Italiano |
<memo.20240830154809.19028v@jgd.cix.co.uk> View for Bookmarking (what is this?) Look up another Usenet article |
Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) Newsgroups: comp.arch Subject: Re: Computer architects leaving Intel... Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2024 15:48 +0100 (BST) Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 51 Message-ID: <memo.20240830154809.19028v@jgd.cix.co.uk> References: <2024Aug30.122638@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> Reply-To: jgd@cix.co.uk Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2024 16:48:09 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="38033b2def40f84b61277130ee7f3660"; logging-data="577339"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX197k+NkINdqm1NEd8jJ/iW2qbTJfNWoLnk=" Cancel-Lock: sha1:YbSDU/qRJt/EPNERz4BhsP+fMjU= X-Clacks-Overhead-header: GNU Terry Pratchett Bytes: 3320 In article <2024Aug30.122638@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) wrote: > AMD64 already has the buy-in of application vendors for desktops and > servers, so it does not have the problem that extensions create > uncertainty among application vendors. > > My guess is that there are the following motivations: > > 1) The new instructions make technical sense (for certain > applications). This is sometimes true, but manufacturers tend to over-promote them, claiming wider applicability and bigger effects than show up in real application code. After a few disappointments, ISVs tend to become less keen on doing work on marketing advice. Some manufacturers pay bonuses to their technical marketing people for getting ISVs to adopt new ISA extensions. This is counter productive, because it means the ISVs are sure that the marketing advice will take no account of their interests. They prefer to wait until an extension has been out for several years before supporting it, so that it's available in pretty well all the end-user hardware that hasn't finished its depreciation yet. That's driven by a facet of the application software industry that most hardware manufacturers don't seem to understand. They appear to assume that computers are set up with an initial software load and carry on running that for their entire lives. In fact, organisations replace about a quarter of their machines each year, always buying up-to-date ones, and want to run the /same/ version of software on all of them. They want common software versions for data compatibility, ease of training and so on. That means that a new release of an application has to run on all the machines sold in the last four years, sometimes longer. Some manufacturers expect ISVs to produce multiple versions of software for different sets of ISA extensions. They'll do that if the gains are large enough, but they have to be quite large: for my employer, 25% is enough, but 10% isn't. We haven't had to make a decision in between those numbers yet. We've had one 25% case, for Intel SSE2, and many of 10% or less. > 2) Even if the applications that the users use don't benefit from > the extensions, the users think (thanks also to Intels marketing) The sheer flood of extensions from Intel means most end-user organisations have stopped trying to keep track these days. John