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From: shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: Biden Says the Quiet Part Out Loud
Date: Sat, 11 May 2024 14:40:43 -0400
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On Sat, 11 May 2024 16:11:50 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com> wrote:
>>Sat, 11 May 2024 14:33:05 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>>BTR1701 <no_email@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>But no, the Dems aren't trying to dilute your vote and change the
>>>>demographics of the nation.
>
>>>>Pshaw! That's just nonsense.
>
>>Even without the influx of Hispanics into the country it makes sense
>>for both parties, Democrats and Republicans, to court those Hispanic
>>voters. Ignoring them makes no sense in the long run.
>
>Such voters cannot be courted as a single demographic, and this confuses
>political campaigns. Those who immigrated speak Spanish (but there are
>so many variations in Spanish that it's hard for people from different
>countries to communicate, or even between different regions in Spain).
>If their children were born here, they probably didn't grow up speaking
>Spanish. I've told the story that my very own high school Spanish
>teacher, born in Cuba, had not taught his own children to speak Spanish
>in the home and expected his own kids to take high school Spanish. His
>son was in my grade.
>
>People from different countries have different attitudes. People from
>different parts of Mexico have different attitudes. It depends on their
>social status before they were forced to immigrate, and it depends what
>they've achieved in the United States.

Agreed. I started to add another section about Cuba and how their
votes are split up but left it out as it felt like it was getting too
far from the central discussion, but it very much ties into this point
that the various groups may speak the same language but that doesn't
mean they all think the same or value the same things.

>I would prefer that politicians win votes using practical politics, good
>ideas, not insulting voters who won't vote for them, and not assuming
>they are entitled to anybody's vote just because the voter is of a
>certain demographic or the demographic is shared with the politician.
>
>>Assuming that
>>the majority are going to end up voting Democrat also doesn't make
>>sense. It will be years before anyone entering the country from
>>South/Central America will be able to vote so it will be the policies
>>in place at that time that are more likely to impact which party they
>>tend to vote for.
>
>Similarly, Republicans are morons for demonizing all immigrants to play
>scapegoat politics to shore up the votes of disaffected older white
>voters. Ok. I take that back. Scapegoating when done correctly works
>quite well in the short run. Just look at anti-Semitic college protests.
>Lemme go find my yellow armband.

Yes, and it seems that all most politicians can think about today is
the short term. So we get them focusing on what is happening today or
this year and ignoring how this will likely play out over the next
decade or two. Maybe because they are all old enough they won't be in
politics in a decade or two.


>>>>-----------------
>>>>President Biden referred to illegal aliens as "voters" during an interview
>>>>on a Spanish-speaking radio show released Tuesday.
>
>>>>"It's even a bigger influx now in terms of Hispanic voters, or Hispanic -
>>>>Hispanic citizens, who want to become citizens," President Biden said of
>>>>the current migrant crisis.
>
>>>Could we have the entire quote in context of a portion of the transcript
>>>please?
>
>>Looks like BTR was quoting this Fox News article:
>>https://www.foxnews.com/media/biden-roasted-freudian-slip-referring-immigration-influx-hispanic-voters
>
>>President Biden appeared to accidentally refer to Hispanic migrants as
>>"voters" during an interview on a Spanish-speaking radio show released
>>Tuesday.
>
>>"It's even a bigger influx now in terms of Hispanic voters, or
>>Hispanic - Hispanic citizens, who want to become citizens," President
>>Biden said of the current migrant crisis. 
>
>>He argued that the current wave of immigration is "a little bit like
>>back in the 1840s and the great exodus of Ireland, because of the
>>famine and the way Irish Catholics were treated. They said no, no, we
>>don't need any more of those folks. There was a large influx."
>
>>"The Hispanic community is part of the future of America," Biden told
>>a host from Spanish radio show Chiquibaby this week. "Twenty-eight out
>>of every 100 students in school speak Spanish, the idea that you're
>>gonna ignore that? That's our future. One of the reasons that we're
>>growing so much is we have a significant influx of immigrants coming
>>into our country, only reason our economy's so good. We're not a
>>xenophobic nation. Other nations are, we're not, that's why our
>>economy is the best in the world."
>
>>-----
>>It's the sort of typical miss step that people have when speaking. Fox
>>News naturally chooses to read into it some nefarious meaning when it
>>is more likely that Biden just used the wrong term by accident. After
>>all the people coming in today aren't going to be voting for some time
>>to come.
>
>I don't agree with you on what his misspeak was. The term he left out was
>"future", as in "future voters". He's thinking of them as future Democratic
>voters, that a demographic change is being forced upon America and that
>the Democratic Party can therefore sit on its hands and do nothing to
>benefit from it. After all, the assumption that Democrats are entitled
>to the black vote post-Goldwater has worked out spectacularly well (cough
>cough Hillary).


No party should think they are entitle to someone's vote. I hearken
back to the Cuban voter issue where there was a tendency to vote
Republican but in the last election the vote in Florida among Cubans
was more evenly split between the two parties. Perhaps partly because
President Trump instituted various sanctions against Cuba while Biden
was talking about normalizing the relationship with Cuba.

>I think that attitude, which leads to taking votes for granted, stinks.
>
>Are children of immigrants learning English quickly enough that they are
>catching up in public school? Unlikely. Teaching them in their native
>language probably doesn't work all that well either given the great
>difficulty of assessing what education they already had. No, the old
>instant immersion and continuous English lessons to learn the new
>culture and new language that we used to expect of immigrants was
>probably the best idea. Also, if we expect children to learn another
>language and culture quickly and do it right (a la a lot younger than
>high school, 'cuz that just doesn't work for most of us), they can
>accomplish it.

Agreed. I have a large contingent of Spanish speakers living around me
with young kids. So when I'm out walking around I can hear them
talking to each other and most default to Spanish. That's great for
them in keeping up the language of their parents (and possibly their)
home country but it isn't so great at their mastering the English
language. What I don't know is how we (in Georgia) are handling these
kids and their language skills in school. 

Hopefully we are pushing them to master the English language, but then
I see various businesses around town that have all their signage in
only one language (and it isn't English.)  Perhaps that is just to
cater to the parents/grandparents but then I hear tell of generations
of people living in these enclaves that only speak their homeland
language because that is what everyone around them speak. So maybe the
kids get exposed to English in school but then their daily lives are
built around another language.

>The immigrant crisis has been a disaster for everyone affected because
>Biden put zero thought into any of it. Let's treat them as asylum
>seakers knowing they don't qualify. Let's not allow them to work legally
>even though no one came here to be on welfare.

Yeah, Cash Jordan has had a number of videos on Youtube about the
immigration issue in NYC. A few of his latest videos have been about
this issue where in NYC has set up itself as a sanctuary city, but due
to various local/state/federal rules they aren't allowing the
immigrants to work without going through a long drawn out process.
Then because there are so many they are willing to house them free of
charge but now limit it to 30 days and then they are forced out (but
can reapply for housing.) So they have thousands of people who can't
work in the city and don't have any place to sleep. Little wonder that
has led to issues like crime and homelessness. 

>I don't oppose immigration. I never have. But nothing leading to the
>crisis is being addressed in our foreign relations, and the way we are
>treating them upon arrival has been just awful.

Yes, there has to be a managed form of immigration that sets these
people up for success. That gives them the ability to work and find a
place to live and not just leave them all to flounder.