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From: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl
Subject: Re: battery fire
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Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 13:17:38 +0100
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In article <vmj57u$2aa3n$1@dont-email.me>,
Jeroen Belleman  <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>On 1/19/25 14:09, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Jan 2025 10:38:17 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
>> <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/19/25 08:25, Sergey Kubushyn wrote:
>>>> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 18/01/2025 9:37 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>>>> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 17/01/2025 21:42, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lithium ion battery fires are virtually impossible to put out - you have
>>>>>>>> to let them burn out and use boundary cooling on the neighbouring
>>>>>>>> modules with copious amounts of water. Looks like this one managed to
>>>>>>>> get away from the fire fighters (which isn't supposed to happen).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We have no problem building large windmills at sea. Why not build the
>>>>>>> lithium storage facilities off the coast too? The capital cost would be
>>>>>>> higher, but once built they could be maintained in a similar way to
>>>>>>> those on land. And if one caught fire, there's plenty of water around to
>>>>>>> put the fire out, or at least keep it under control. For even greater
>>>>>>> safety - and expense - they could be built as submerged facilities,
>>>>>>> where any fire could be dealt with in seconds by opening a valve and
>>>>>>> letting sea water flood the building.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I seem to remember from my chemistry lessons that lithium reacts
>>>>>> violently with water.  Containing lithium pollution of large areas of
>>>>>> the sea in stormy conditions (which is when catastrophic failure is most
>>>>>> likely to occur) might be quite difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>> It wasn't lithium but sodium. Potassium was even worse. Lithium does
>>>>> react in a similar way, but it schools didn't keep stocks of lithium
>>>>> metal around fifty years ago, and probably still don't.
>>>>
>>>> What that word salad was supposed to mean?
>>>>
>>>> Lithium reacts violently with water. Furtermore, it is lighter than ANY
>>>> liquid known to a man so it floats in EVERYTHING you could put on it. But
>>>> wait, there is more -- that black crust that it gets covered with in no time
>>>> when subjected to air is not oxide but NITRIDE. Unlike sodium and potassium
>>>> lithium readily reacts with both oxygen and nitrogen and it burns
>>>> spectacularly even in pure nitrogen, without any oxygen present.
>>>
>>>
>>>  From direct experience, I know it is quite stable in dry air.
>>> It tarnishes in seconds in air with normal humidity levels,
>>> and yes, it reacts violently with water.
>>>
>>> Jeroen Belleman
>>
>> Depends. Yes, violently if confined, but merely vigorously if allowed
>> to skate around on the surface expelling energy.
>
>Have you actually seen it?
>
>I have. (It was thick foil, not a lump, and it was not confined.)
>
>Violent is the word that's fitting.

(Using foil is not fair, even iron that is sufficiently fine combusts
spontaneously.)

There are youtube video's around comparing the whole first column of
the periodic table. lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium, caesium.
(Not francium ;-) ).
If you have seen the caesium reaction, you don't call the lithium
reaction violent, not for lumps.
You have to be behind a bulletproof shield. The water container shatters.

Search for
"Group 1 metals with water"

You can witness a whole slew of dangerous experiments online,
but nothing beats the smell of bromium on saturday mornings.

>
>Jeroen Belleman
>

Groetjes Albert
>
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