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From: Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: BOLO pervert cyclist
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2024 10:47:51 -0700
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On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:14:33 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

>On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 20:25:38 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 17:30:25 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>><Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>
>>>+1 ..and why does anyone care what kind of bikes other people buy?
>>
>>-1.  I like to see what other people buy and use so I can learn from
>>their experiences (and mistakes).  Some people can look at a catalog,
>>video or advertisement and instantly know that what they're looking at
>>is perfect for them.  I can't do that.  A test ride is probably best,
>>but watching what others do with the bicycle is a good 2nd best
>>evaluation method.  If I'm not currently in the market for a new
>>bicycle, then the education I get in watching what other people buy is
>>valuable.
>>
>>There are also people who won't buy anything unless they know someone
>>who already owns one.  I'm one of those people.  Buying version 1.0
>>has usually been a loser for me.  I bought my (used) Subaru mostly
>>because I knew 5 people locally who own one and who could give me
>>unbiased advice on its merits and potential problems.  I test drove 4
>>of the cars.  However, I can't test drive everything, so I rely on the
>>opinions of others.  It's like my motto "Learn by Destroying" except
>>it's someone else that destroys their latest purchase.
>>
>>You might not think it acceptable to take someone else's advice or
>>accept their opinions.  I do the opposite.  I ask for advice, solicit
>>people's opinion, and learn from them.  I read the buyer reviews on
>>web sites.  I watch YouTube videos demonstrating how the product is
>>used.  I read alarmist stories about how my latest purchase might be
>>short cut to my damnation.  This hasn't been 100% successful, but it's
>>good enough for my purposes and certainly better purchasing cars or
>>bicycles with only the dealer or vendors sales pitch.
>
>(1) You care about what other people buy, but I doubt that you berate
>them or try to talk them out of it.

I try to avoid criticizing the buyer and prefer to criticize the
product.  I don't get involved in such discussions over bicycle
purchases.  I don't ride much any more and am not involved in any
cycling organizations.  The opportunity just doesn't exist for me.
However, I'm still heavily involved in computer purchases, both new
and used.  I will gladly offer my opinion on a prospect computer
purchase often in excruciating detail.  However, there's a catch.  It
takes me several hours online to find the best configuration, software
and price.  I also take some responsibility if the purchase goes awry.
For that, I charge for my time.  If I'm expected to assemble and
configure the computer on arrival, I also charge for that.

As for berating someone, that's counterproductive.  I don't think it's
a good idea to irritate someone who might be a potential paying
customer.  If something goes wrong, I do my best to solve the problem
without assigning the blame.  My usual line is "Let's talk about
finger pointing after the computer is working".

I don't know much of this applies to online opinions of bicycles and
their buyers.  I've only purchased one new bicycle (in 1985) so I'm
not really qualified to offer an opinion.  I do have some experience
with older machines and components.  I know enough about design,
engineering, material properties, metallurgy, chemistry, shop
practices, etc to consider myself qualified to offer an opinion.  Of
course, I'm an expert in any off topic discussion.

>(2) I suspect that you solicit the advice (so do I) and you seek out
>opinions of people who you have detirmined to be qualified.

True.  Back in the last century, I had a box of business cards of
people who I would call for help.  Today, the list is on my computer.
It's often who I know rather than what I know.  Unfortunately, as I
get older, many of my former expert contacts are no longer available
causing a big reduction in sources of expert advice.  I didn't realize
how useful they were until after they were gone.  That leaves me with
having to seek advice from various online forums.  There are plenty of
genuine experts out there, but getting them to answer my questions has
proven difficult.  After the introductory "how did you find me?"
discussion, they usually mention keeping a low profile because of all
the "noise" they have found in online forums.  Fortunately, I'm on
several private mailing list that include knowledgeable experts.  I
think I set the unwritten policy on one such mailing list.  If you ask
a question, be prepared to also answer someone else's question in
detail.  It's easy to spot the real experts by how they handle the
detail.

>That's very different from what I intended with that question. My
>mistake. I should have been clearer.

Try saving your message after writing it.  Wait about 30 to 60 minutes
and then look at it again.  That's what I (sometimes) do.  I can
usually see mistakes better after a delay.  Also, I think you'll find
that short one-line messages have far more ways they might be
interpreted than a longer message that explains your comment in
detail.  

Incidentally, I had to edit this twice before posting because I was
interrupted by multiple phone calls.  If you look at some of my
posting from yesterday, you'll probably find some strange choice of
wording.  That's what happens if I post something immediately after
writing it.



-- 
Jeff Liebermann                 jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272      http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann      AE6KS    831-336-2558