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From: Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Bell of Lost Souls] It's Canon: Baldur's Gate 3 Brings D&D To The Vatican
Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2024 13:29:15 -0500
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On Tue, 19 Nov 2024 15:23:25 -0500, Xocyll <Xocyll@gmx.com> wrote:

>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> looked up from reading the
>entrails of the porn spammer to utter  "The Augury is good, the signs
>say:
>
>>On 11/18/2024 5:31 PM, Jhulian Waldby wrote:
>>> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>>> On 11/15/2024 12:37 PM, Zaghadka wrote:
>>>>> Top post. First off, please knock it off with the non ANSI characters.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had so much trouble posting a reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 09:32:27 +0100, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>>>> Kyonshi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/15/2024 1:11 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/14/2024 10:55 AM, Ross Ridge wrote:
>>>>>>>> Kyonshi  <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> At any rate, it is ironic see D&D go from Satanic Panic to being
>>>>>>>>> installed somewhere in the Vatican in just a few short decades. 
>>>>>>>>> Never
>>>>>>>>> let anyone tell you who you are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sure D&D was played in some form in the precincts of the Vatican
>>>>>>>> long before Baldur's Gate 3 was released.  Maybe even during the time
>>>>>>>> when the Satanic Panic thing was raging in the US and to a lesser 
>>>>>>>> extent
>>>>>>>> the rest of the English speaking world, but not so much in Italy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know that it was Catholics going after D&D.  BADD was
>>>>>>> popularized by evangelicals - specifically the TV kind.  Jack Chick 
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> was some very weird offshoot of Baptist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And I think D&D was too niche back then to even touch some area like
>>>>>> that (which is after all just the size of a small town, even in the
>>>>>> middle of a metropolis), especially as a lot of inhabitants of the
>>>>>> Vatican city are elder professionals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One would have to look up when DnD was released in Italian maybe.
>>>>>
>>>>> All I know, and excuse me if I'm repeating this story for the 19th time,
>>>>> is that my Irish Catholic grandmother bought me a first print 1e 
>>>>> *Deities
>>>>> & Demigods* for freaking Easter. I asked for it, and she was all "Yup."
>>>>> So no, I don't think her priest was railing against Satan in D&D.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm pretty sure it was an American phoneme.
>>>>
>>> I guess the concern is that players may become unable to differentiate 
>>> the truth from the water elemental.  I've noticed this in some Dungeon 
>>> Masters who argue rules as if it were a physics laboratory.  Not one 
>>> hint of "this is fiction" or "we can't find a rule for that."
>>> 
>>> Funny though, I haven't heard anyone mention Satanism in D&D for yrs. 
>>> That all stopped a week before I picked up Basic Dungeons & Dragons.
>>> 
>>> Who were those people?  I couldn't tell you, I've forgotten.
>>
>>Something about some group of teenagers wandering around in the New York 
>>subway tunnels comes to mind.
>
>That's Rona Jaffe's Mazes & Monsters.
>https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084314/
>
>The Satanism thing was Jack Chick;
>https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/oct/25/jack-chick-christian-comic-cartoonist-death
>
>A snippet:  "A lot of people hated Jack Chick. He wrote furious screeds
>against Dungeons & Dragons, against Catholicism and against rock music;
>he waged a long and ultimately unsuccessful war on Halloween. If you
>were Jewish or Muslim or gay, Chick wanted you to be saved from the
>fires of hell and wrote a comic to tell you so."
>
>A collection of his lunacy;
>https://www.chick.com/products/category?type=tracts
>
>Specifically for D&D
>https://www.chick.com/products/tract?stk=46&ue=d
>
>Xocyll


I mean, it wasn't _only_ Jack Chick. The American 'Satanic Panic'
thing was fairly wide-spread even before D&D; believers pointed to
comic books, movies, rock'n'roll and all sorts of entertainment as
malefic influences on the youth. D&D was a sort of easy target because
one of its rulebooks featured a demonic idol on its cover. But of any
one person could be pointed to as the driving force for the 'D&D is a
tool of Satan", it's probably Patricia Pulling, nominal private
investigator, author of "The Devil's Web" and founder of BADD
('Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons', an anti-satanism campaign that
specifically targeted tabletop RPGs).

Chick was an end-times baptist nutjob who wrote a lot of corny and
logically-inconsistent morality plays in the form of comic strips
which reflected his very weird beliefs, of which 'Dark Dungeons' was
only one of many. As far as I can tell, it came out in the mid 80s,
some years after Pulling founded BADD and after the height of the
Satanic Panic frenzy.