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From: Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net>
Newsgroups: sci.physics
Subject: Re: Europa and energy transfer
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2024 17:24:59 -0700
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bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 14:27:05 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
> 
>> Bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 0:27:40 +0000, Jim Pennino wrote:
>>>
>>>> bertietaylor <bertietaylor@myyahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 22:05:55 +0000, x wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/29/24 21:53, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>> NASA has a mission to the Jovian system, to study Europa. That moon is
>>>>>>> interesting because it appears to have liquid water under an icy
>>>>>>> surface. The heat need to keep the water liquid comes from the
>>>>>>> stretching and compression Europa experiences during its orbit around
>>>>>>> Jupiter, the orbit not been exactly circular.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So much, so simple.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Some thought made me realise that although the tidal forces on Europa
>>>>>>> mean that it is not exactly spherical, its two bulges cannot remain
>>>>>>> perfectly aligned with Jupiter, because Europa's angular velocity
>>>>>>> relative to Jupiter is higher at periapsis than at apoapsis. The result
>>>>>>> is that the nearer bulge is sometimes ahead, and sometimes behind,
>>>>>>> relative to Europa's orbital motion, resulting in a net force backwards
>>>>>>> along the orbit, or forward along the orbit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, certainly stuff that's already well known.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I can see, the energy that is being dissipated as heat inside
>>>>>>> Europa has to come from changes to Europa's orbit. Further, if Europa
>>>>>>> were either perfectly rigid, or perfectly elastic, there would be no
>>>>>>> energy transfer, and consequently no change to the orbit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would make no difference if Jupiter itself were perfectly rigid, so
>>>>>>> the transfer cannot involve tides on Jupiter generated by Europa.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the existence of the orbital energy transfer depends on Europa being
>>>>>>> neither perfectly rigid nor perfectly elastic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What escapes me is the mechanism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am thinking that the standard model for Earth is that supposedly
>>>>>> in the 1800s Lord Kelvin did some calculations.
>>>>>
>>>>> At that time they had thought the universe was only full of stars.
>>>>
>>>> Utter nonsense yet again, crackpot.
>>>>
>>>> By 1600 astronmers were well aware of different types of celestial
>>>> bodies and beginning to measure distances to such.
>>>
>>> Did they have a clue about galaxies.
>>
>> "They" had a clue as early as 450 BCE crackpot.
> 
> No, fool.
> They thought the stars were the lights from Heaven.

No, not everyone thought that crackpot.

>>
>> The first attempts at measuring distant objects where made around 1000
>> CE crackpot.
>>
>> The invention of the telescope in 1610 rather clinched the deal
>> crackpot.
> 
> Penisnino, all they found then that crystal spheres MAY NOT exist and
> the Earth MIGHT go around the Sun.

Utterly wrong crackpot.

<snip remaing insane babble unread>