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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 20:15:59 +0000
From: john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: "Sampler??"
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 13:15:59 -0700
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On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 19:21:28 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:39:37 -0700, john larkin wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 08:58:35 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
>> <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 05:16:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a sunny day (Mon, 29 Jul 2024 09:29:04 -0700) it happened john
>>>> larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
>>>> <72gfajl8ke966lsu54bpajpang9dvgmt63@4ax.com>:
>>>> 
>>>>>On Mon, 29 Jul 2024 05:19:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On a sunny day (Sun, 28 Jul 2024 21:40:41 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
>>>>>>Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in
>>>>>><v86dsp$3n74$1@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I still can't see where the 'sampling' bit comes into it.
>>>>>>>AFAICT, there's are two signals into this thing and one signal out.
>>>>>>>The signal from the LHS is passed through a very fast diode which
>>>>>>>generates harmonics from that fundamental. The signal from the RHS
>>>>>>>is unmodified and mixed with the desired harmonic to give the
>>>>>>>necessary output signal which is then filtered to get rid of the
>>>>>>>unwanted mixing products. If that's all correct, as I believe it is,
>>>>>>>where does any *sampling* come into it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A 'sampler' is fact a non-linear mixer.
>>>>>
>>>>>In the audio world, a "mixer" is a linear summer.
>>>>>
>>>>>In RF, a mixer is usually a multiplier, typically a 4-quadrant diode
>>>>>thing or a Gilbert cell type circuit. Or a 2-quadrant thing like a
>>>>>pentode. Or even a single diode. All do some flavor of multiplying.
>>>>>
>>>>>Some mixers inherently multiply a signal by a square wave, which
>>>>>resembles other multiplier-type things once you lowpass filter the
>>>>>output. That's a "synchronous detector", which we usually do in an
>>>>>FPGA.
>>>>>
>>>>>A sampler is a signal multiplier too.
>>>>>
>>>>>These are all variations on the basic idea of multiplying two signals.
>>>> 
>>>> A the word 'mixer' in RF is not the same as a multiplier,,
>>>> Multipliers are like harmonic generating stages say you have a 1 MHz
>>>> distorted sine wave and then a second stage tuned at 3 MHz,.. turned
>>>> to third harmonic.
>>>> 
>>>> mamamatical speaking RF mixing is indeed multiplication.
>>>> 
>>>> Like Shakepierce once said:
>>>>  "What's in a name..." CocaCola wihout coke
>>>
>>>I think in this context, HP is using the term "sampler" to mean
>>>something which 'sniffs' a small amount of a signal for testing
>>>purposes. Like a few turns of wire around a transmission line will
>>>'sniff' a small sample of what's going on in the line.
>>>Where I went wrong was rigidly thinking HP meant 'sampling' in the
>>>manner a sampling oscilloscope works. That's what threw me. I tend to
>>>interpret things very literally. :(
>> 
>> The sampler in the SA schematic is precisely the sort of sampler used in
>> a sampling scope. It contains a step-recovery diode impulse generator
>> and no doubt some sampling diodes.
>
>How can you say that when you haven't seen the schematic? If you've been 
>able to find it online somewhere then kindly post a link to it here.

You posted an excerpt from the HP manual where the sampler is
described.