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From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: yes!
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2024 15:03:12 -0400
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On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:04:29 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 12:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 07:16:54 -0700, john larkin
>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 19 Aug 2024 07:19:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On a sunny day (Mon, 19 Aug 2024 15:27:38 +1000) it happened Bill Sloman
>>>><bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <v9ul4a$2ogi5$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>>On 19/08/2024 1:14 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 18 Aug 2024 15:39:46 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 18/08/2024 11:16 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 17:54:38 +0100, Martin Brown
>>>>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 16/08/2024 23:16, john larkin wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 21:01:06 +0100, Martin Brown
>>>>>>>>>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OTOH I was visiting my tame biochemist friend today and he is interested
>>>>>>>>>>> in it as he has always suspected that there was a lot more to myelin
>>>>>>>>>>> sheaths on nerves than they are usually given credit for. A QM mediated
>>>>>>>>>>> higher transmission efficiency of signals *might* just be plausible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My theory is that the electrical pulses we see in long nerves are just
>>>>>>>>>> chemical refreshes, not the data carriers themselves.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That isn't any kind of scientific theory - it is too feeble even to be
>>>>>>>>> called a conjecture. Wild imagining is still far too polite. Crazy idea
>>>>>>>>> perhaps?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consider the timing accuracy required to encode all the information
>>>>>>>> from your foot, given just the obvious electrical nerve pulses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now consider what happens to the relative pulse timings when you flex
>>>>>>>> your limbs and body, when sound and shock waves slam your nerves, when
>>>>>>>> your heart beats.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Too much jitter for simple pulse-time encoding.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who would imagine that it was simple? Design is all about getting the
>>>>>>> result you want from the hardware you've got, and while our nervous
>>>>>>> system isn't designed, only those random mutations which lead to a
>>>>>>> tolerably functional system survived natural selection.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ToSEAj2V0s
>>>>>
>>>>>We all know you are a creationist. I was deliberately sending you up 
>>>>>there, and you fell for it.
>>>>
>>>>John's idea of 'random' in 'only those random mutations which lead to a tolerably functional system'
>>>>shows he misses out on something essential.
>>>>Look at the Periodic System, how neutrons, protons, electrons, combine in always the SAME configuration
>>>>forming our elements...
>>>>Nothing 'random' about it.
>>>>We know very little what electrons and the other elementary particles are made of and how those work, are formed, interact.
>>>>But starting from the Periodic System that is not random at all and then all the way to life as we know it
>>>>is a pre-determined process that does not need a 'God' / Creator or whatever.
>>>>Of course some tinkerer alien could have created the elementary particles in its lab, but that is circular reasoning.
>>>>
>>>>There is  lot of circular things, one can wonder if sort of processes (like us) exist on the surface of neutrons for example 
>>>>Not such a wild idea if you see the scale of things, us (as humming beans) on this planet in this solar system in this galaxy in this part of the universe we can observe..
>>>>Scales are fantastic.
>>>>As to 'random' creating a random code is hard, people are trying very hard in cryptology..
>>>
>>>Johnson and zener noise are random. Scramble several to be really
>>>sure.
>>>
>>>>Maybe logic says we cannot create a random code as we are not random? Wild idea...
>>>>But randomness is an interesting thing.
>>>>
>>>
>>>How about programming a computer to generate random character
>>>substitutions in, say, a Python program, and test various resulting
>>>versions to see if they improve, or better yet, perform some wonderful
>>>new unexpected function.
>>>
>>>That would be neo-darwinian programming, random mutation and
>>>selection.
>>>
>>>Actually, that scheme has been tried for circuit design. It didn't
>>>work well.
>>>
>>>Random mutation and selection does work to design LC filters, up to
>>>3rd order or so. At higher orders, it diverges to nonsense.
>>
>>Sounds about right.  Convergence depends on the existence of even a
>>tiny average gradient. 
>>
>>But if one keeps at it, eventually a lucky jump will occur.  It may
>>take a million years to get anywhere useful.
>>
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
>The Nuhertz software designs amazing LC filters using standard-value
>Ls and Cs. Fast. I don't understand how that is even possible.

Nuhertz is a product of Ozen Engineering, who ain't talking directly
about this.  But it seems to be that the speedups come from better
choice of what exactly to optimize, and especially the equivalent of
better mesh generation (for finite-element design).

I'll mull it over.

Joe Gwinn