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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Job Offer
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 14:15:20 -0400
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 17:24:26 +0100, Rolf Mantel
<news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

>Am 18.03.2025 um 16:34 schrieb Catrike Ryder:
>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:03:56 +0100, Rolf Mantel
>> <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 18.03.2025 um 15:34 schrieb Roger Merriman:
>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>> accredited engineering programOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 19:12:18 +0700, John B.
>>>>>> <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 08:00:55 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> accredited engineering programOn Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:22:33 -0400,
>>>>>>>> Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 16:52:40 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Mar 2025 04:05:22 -0400, Catrike Ryder
>>>>>>>>> <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I never said I though I was loved by God.On Tue, 18 Mar 2025
>>>>>>>>>>> 08:52:46 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 12:06:55 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 12:03 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 17 Mar 2025 11:35:21 -0500, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 11:07 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/17/2025 10:30 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2025 10:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/16/2025 4:28 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Education isn't an accomplishment, it's a tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's both. Education can't be simply given to a person.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can be greatly helped by a competent teacher, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person still has to work to achieve it. Doing that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully is an accomplishment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's odd is that this discussion group has a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> denizens who think they can accomplish just as much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without that tool.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In modern parlance, they actually are the tools.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's binary or Manichean.  That is, both or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all can be true in different examples.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Examples abound of both autodidacts with gaping holes in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their repertoire (me) and others who accomplished much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the same background (Franklin).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Benjamin Franklin was brilliant. It's been pointed out that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his science accomplishments alone would have won Nobel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prizes had they existed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But any modern American is a fool if he says "Franklin was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great and he learned it all himself. So I don't need no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schooling."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, that would be a logical leap in most cases.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Still and all, situations, capacity, attitude and resources
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vary so much that a certificate or a degree may not hold a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good return for everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again this is the difference between education broadly and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certification specifically.  No one wants a heart surgeon or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structural engineer who sorta gets the general idea in his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> field:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-BpW_cM7iYc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I very clearly remember the moment when I reached awareness. It was in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fourth grade and I was assigned a couple of pages of long division,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> which I was ordered to copy out of the book and "<LOL> solve....  I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> did a couple and then it hit me. I know how to do this and doing it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over serves no purpose. That's when I started ignoring the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> assignments and going ahead in the book on my own. I did very little
>>>>>>>>>>>>> homework from that day on, but I did well on all the tests. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant teachers insisted on basing too much of the grades on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "daily work, instead of simply how much was learned. I think it hurt
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their feelings that I ignored their instructions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most of what I know, I learned by reading and experimenting. Yeah, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know that wouldn't work for doctors, nurses, and dentists, but those
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinds of professions are too restrictive for me anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C'est bon
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Soloman
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Good point, and you understand the difference. See also
>>>>>>>>>>>> airplane mechanics.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Most of what I know, I learned by reading and experimenting."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Airplane mechanic?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And the pilots don't complain? ():-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I never worked on an airplane, but I wrenched on cars and trucks and
>>>>>>>>>> boats and tractors and snowmobiles and motorcycles and bicycles. I
>>>>>>>>>> didn't need a school teacher for any of that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am genuine,, Federal licensed, Airplane Mechanic (:-)  Air plane
>>>>>>>>> mechanizing  is more a  matter of doing work correctly and maybe more
>>>>>>>>> important not doing things wrong. For example there are limits on how
>>>>>>>>> many and what sort welds can be made in a steel tube aircraft
>>>>>>>>> fuselage. Or the correct process to weld an internal combustion engine
>>>>>>>>> exhaust and so on and everything that might come loose has to be
>>>>>>>>> secures with safety wire, or other safety system to avoid things
>>>>>>>>> falling off in flight (Upsets the pilots greatly when parts start
>>>>>>>>> falling off in flight  :-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know a bit about piston engines in general, but there are many
>>>>>>>> variations and many I have not worked on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find motorcycle engines very interesting, there are parallel, boxer,
>>>>>>> and offset V configurations and many different versions of each. My
>>>>>>> Virago VTwin used a single crank pin like the Harley's but fired on
>>>>>>> different rotations while the Harley's fired both on the same
>>>>>>> rotation. They seemed very proud of their engines' unique sound and
>>>>>>> pretend not to notice the resulting vibration. The early Norton vtwins
>>>>>>> had offset crank pins to go with the offset V cylinders. They don't
>>>>>>> make stuff like they used to make stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yup the old Harleys had no Distributor and fired both spark plugs at
>>>>>> the same time - one on the exhaust stroke and one on the power stroke.
>>>>>
>>>>> To clarify. I believe the early Harleys fired twice on each cylinder
>>>>> on each sequence. Each cycilnder got one firing at the correct time
>>>>> and one firing on each cylinder either before or after the correct
>>>>> time.
>>>
>>>> How does that work then? If the first ignition has ignited all or at least
>>>> most of the fuel? Or did it introduce a 2nd batch of fuel?
>>>
>>> A 4-stroke engine needs its ignition at the end of stroke 1 (cylinder
>>> compressed and full of fuel-air mix).  At the end of stroke 3 (cylinder
>>> at minimum volume but empty from pushing out the exhaust) there is
>>> nothing to ignite so an igntion at this point of time have not use but
>>> also no harm.
>>>
>>> So with two cylinders offest by 180 degrees (boxer engine), you can skip
>>> the distributor.
>> 
>> Harley's are not boxers.
>
>I'm aware of this.  Please offer details of how they managed to leave 
>out the distributor: are they timed to be synch - offset by 180 degress 
>despite being physically a V engine with 120 degrees or so? This would 
>explain the serious vibrations from an imbalanced engine.

I'm clearly not an expert on HDs, but I know the vtwins are not
synched. Most of what I knew (or thought I knew) was word of mouth
from people who were badmouthing them. My understanding is that both
cylinders used a common crank pin. My Yamaha Vtwin had a common crank
pin too, but it did not vibrate like the Harly, nor did it have the
unique Harley exhaust sound.

--
C'est bon
Soloman