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From: John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Patching TPU innertube
Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2024 17:54:03 +0700
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On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 04:08:40 -0500, Catrike Rider
<soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 23:16:08 -0500, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 12/30/2024 10:28 AM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>> On 12/28/2024 6:35 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 12/28/2024 12:43 PM, zen cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 12/27/2024 9:40 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/27/2024 2:01 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>>>> On 12/27/2024 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given what I've read about violins (Stradivarius can't be told 
>>>>>>>> from modern ones in blind hearing tests) 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> horseshit. Someone with training and experience can most certainly 
>>>>>>> tell the difference in the tonal quality between a Stradivarius and 
>>>>>>> even a high quality modern violin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/million-dollar-strads-fall- 
>>>>>> modern-violins-blind-sound-check
>>>>>
>>>>> Which doesn't support your claim. You wrote "Stradivarius can't be 
>>>>> told from modern ones in blind hearing tests", The article states:
>>>>>
>>>>> "the 82 listeners in the test reported that the new violins projected 
>>>>> better"
>>>>>
>>>>> "asked subjects which of the two violins in a pairing they preferred. 
>>>>> Listeners chose the new violins over the old"
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, they could tell the difference.
>>>>
>>>> This question has been studied many, many times, for decades. The 
>>>> consistent results are that players or audience can't tell the 
>>>> difference.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/science/a-strad-violinists-cant- 
>>>> tell.html
>>> 
>>> Paywalled
>>> 
>>>>
>>>> https://www.science.org/content/article/elite-violinists-fail- 
>>>> distinguish-legendary-violins-modern-fiddles
>>> 
>>> "The consistency of results from session to session showed that soloists 
>>> could definitely distinguish one violin from another. However, the 
>>> soloists seemed to prefer the new violins, the researchers report online 
>>> today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."
>>> 
>>> Yes, they can tell the difference.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>
>>>> https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/violinists-cant- 
>>>> tell- the-difference-between-stradivarius-violins-and-new-ones
>>> 
>>> The science.org piece also references the test noted here.
>>> 
>>>>
>>>>>>>> and wines (cheap wines really light up pleasure centers in the 
>>>>>>>> brain if tasters are told the wine is expensive),
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> more horseshit. Someone with training and experience can certainly 
>>>>>>> tell the difference in the flavor profiles, especially if you tried 
>>>>>>> to dupe them with a Gallo.
>>>>>> https://money.com/expensive-price-tag-cheap-wine-brain-placebo-effect/
>>>>>
>>>>> Which again doesn't support the claim that people couldn't tell the 
>>>>> difference. It also doesn't state what qualifications the tasters 
>>>>> had, if any. I've had crappy $100 bottles of wine and excellent $25 
>>>>> bottles of wine. Flavor preference is not the same than as "can't 
>>>>> tell the difference".
>>>>
>>>> If "telling the difference" is the same as "succumbing to the placebo 
>>>> effect," you've got a point. 
>>> 
>>> Do you really think it does?
>>> 
>>>> Otherwise, no.
>>> 
>>> we disagree. You're claim was "can't tell the difference". Everything 
>>> you posted to this point notes differences were detected - maybe not to 
>>> conventional wisdom, but differences were detected nonetheless.
>>OK, I yield. They could tell one violin did not sound precisely like 
>>another. But they could not tell which was the Strad, which was really 
>>my point.
>>
>>IOW, they could not detect the supposedly unduplicable sound quality, 
>>the factor that causes Strads to sell for millions of dollars more than 
>>modern violins.
>
>Even after seeing the election results last november, some people
>continue to believe that "studies" based on sample polling produce
>accurate data.


I read Frankie's violins. If I remember the test correct it was
carried out in a hotel room and the test players got to play each
instrument for something like 1 minute.

My younger brother wanted to be a concert phoniest, practiced from the
time he was 5 years old until he graduated from collage. He told me
that playing a piano in the front room of your home and playing on the
stage of a recital hall was a totally difference sound and in fact if
the hall was full or empty made a difference.

So what does 1 minute in a hotel room tell you?



-- 
Cheers,

John B.