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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 17:47:18 -0500
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Subject: Re: The halting problem as defined is a category error --- Flibble is
 correct
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From: olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
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On 7/18/2025 4:42 PM, joes wrote:
> Am Fri, 18 Jul 2025 14:53:31 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>> On 7/18/2025 1:01 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
> 
>>> Well there you go - if you feed incorrect statements to a chatbot, it's
>>> no surprise it is capable of echoing them back to you.  Even Eliza
>>> could do as much...
>>>
>> The above definition of HHH is ALL that the bots ever see, and there is
>> no basis for anyone to determine that it is incorrect.
> 
> HHH only detects that its self would get stuck in recursive simulation.
> 
>>> You can't expect people to "acknowledge" false claims - I told you
>>> years ago that HHH does not detect any such non-halting pattern.  What
>>> it detects is your (unsound) so-called "Infinite Recursive Emulation"
>>> pattern.  I wonder what your chatbot would say if you told it:
> 
>>> ---  So-called Termination Analyser HHH simulates its input for a few
>>> steps then decides to return 0, incorrectly indicating that its input
>>> never halts.  In a separate test, its input is demonstrated to halt in
>>> nnnnn steps.   [Replace nnnnn with actual number of steps]
>>>
>> I have proven that DDD simulated by HHH and directly executed DDD() are
>> in Claude.ai's own words are
>> "computationally distinct objects that have demonstrably different
>> behaviors."
> That's bad. Nobody is running all their programs through HHH, in which
> case they wouldn't even need to test them with HHH, since they are
> already running everything through it and it refuses to execute it.
> We are interested in DDD only. Nobody cares what HHH does to any
> program.
> 
>> I tell you this:
>>    "Halting is ONLY reaching a final halt state"
>> hundreds of times and you pretend that I never said it.
> Liar. Quote?
> 
>>> How will you ensure CACM gives your paper to peer reviewers who are
>>> "not liars" [aka, reviewers who aren't concerned about correctness of
>>> your argument, and instead just mirror back whatever claims the paper
>>> makes] ?
>> No one even attempts yo point out any actual errors.
>> Joes just said that HHH cannot possibly emulate itself after I have
>> conclusively proved that it does.

> I didn't. You forgot the qualification.
> 

On 7/18/2025 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
 > That is wrong. It is, as you say, very obvious
 > that *HHH cannot simulate DDD past the call to HHH*

I rewrote the explanations to be more clear
https://liarparadox.org/HHH(DDD)_Full_Trace.pdf

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
  Genius hits a target no one else can see."
  Arthur Schopenhauer