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From: Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: BOLO pervert cyclist
Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2024 17:08:44 -0400
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On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 12:56:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 15:18:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
><frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>On 9/8/2024 1:14 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 23:32:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>>> <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> America is different. See
>>>> https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume
>>>>
>>>> Among other points the author makes, "...a significant portion of truck
>>>> owners never use their trucks for these capabilities. According to
>>>> Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one
>>>> time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners
>>>> go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck
>>>> owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its
>>>> ostensible raison d’ętre—once a year or less."
>>> 
>>> Nope.  The reason Americans buy such trucks is that "light duty"
>>> trucks are exempt from the "gas guzzler tax".
>>> 
>>> "Energy Tax Act"
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_Tax_Act#Gas_Guzzler_Tax>
>>> 
>>> "Gas Guzzler Tax"
>>> <https://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/gas-guzzler-tax>
>>> "The Gas Guzzler Tax is assessed on new cars that do not meet required
>>> fuel economy levels. These taxes apply only to passenger cars. Trucks,
>>> minivans, and sport utility vehicles (SUV) are not covered because
>>> these vehicle types were not widely available in 1978 and were rarely
>>> used for non-commercial purposes."   (hah-hah-hah)
>>> 
>>> "Navigating the Gas Guzzler Tax"
>>> <https://www.supermoney.com/encyclopedia/gas-guzzler-tax>
>>> "The gas guzzler tax does not apply to trucks, SUVs, minivans, or
>>> other vehicle types that were not prevalent as passenger vehicles when
>>> the law was enacted in 1978. The exemption for “light-duty trucks” has
>>> been exploited by manufacturers, impacting the overall tax collection.
>>> This exemption has contributed to the continued popularity of these
>>> vehicle types among consumers."
>>> 
>>> "Gas Guzzler Tax"
>>> <https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/gasguzzlertax.asp>
>>> "Auto manufacturers were keen to take advantage of a loophole in the
>>> gas guzzler tax and its interpretation through regulatory agencies
>>> like the EPA that exempted "light-duty trucks" from the law.
>>> Consequently, the amount of gas guzzler tax collected by the U.S. in
>>> the fiscal year 2019 was under $43 million."
>>
>>The (absence of) the gas guzzler tax motivated the manufacturing 
>>companies to make and promote the trucks.
>
>True.  The manufacturers find a market and produce a machine that
>sells in that market.  Promotion (mostly based on the image the buyer
>is trying to emulate) is automatic for every type of vehicle.  You may
>have bought an EV because you believe that you're environmentally
>conscious and want everyone who sees you in your EV to know it.
>
>>The buyers don't say "I'm 
>>buying a grossly huge pickup because it bypasses the gas guzzler tax." 
>
>Correct.  Nobody admits to hidden motivations.  You ran into that when
>you repeatedly asked if owning a gun has a practical purpose in our
>society.  You got silence for an answer.  Nobody replied.  I watched
>it develop and finally got sick of your repetitious questions.  So, I
>provided a real answer.  They want to have a gun in case something
>goes wrong while praying they have to use it.  The gun buyer doesn't
>know when or how he may eventually be forced into using a gun.  He
>just doesn't want to be the only person in the room that can't defend
>himself.  If that's paranoia or irrational fear, that fine.  This
>country was founding on our (irrational) fear of British domination.
>The problem is that's not an acceptable justification for owning a
>gun, so you don't hear that from many gun owners.
>
>Now, back to the monster trucks.  There are few rational reasons for
>buying a monster truck.  One reason is money.  When they first started
>to appear, the dealers were having problems clearing their inventory.
>You could buy one of these trucks at a substantial discount on good
>terms.  The prospective buyer was faced with a difficult choice.  He
>could buy a more conventional and practical new car and pay the tax,
>or he could buy a discounted gas guzzler for about the same price. The
>monster truck seems like the best value (in the short run).  Add to
>that the promotional advertising portraying the buyer as being very
>macho, hard working, etc exactly like the now dead lumberjack look.
>Perception is everything and for those who are perceived as lacking
>they will do almost anything, including buying impractical pickup
>trucks, to change how they are perceived.
>
>>They certainly don't buy them to save money, given their inflated costs. 
>
>I'm not sure, but I think that price inflation started after Covid
>officially ended.  Prior to that, you could price such pickup trucks
>by their price divided by their curb weight.  I'll need to do the math
>before I'm claim that with certainty.
>
>>They buy them because they're in fashion, and that fashion makes the 
>>dudes buying them feel a bit more masculine. Or makes the relatively few 
>>ladies that buy them feel either more "cool," or safer - by imposing the 
>>danger externalities on others, in a size and mass arms race.
>
>Yep.  That's a fair summary of what I wrote.  Saving a few thousand on
>the tax was an added bonus, but also one of the few tangible bonus's.
>If you want how it really works, read anything by Vance Packard:
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Packard>
>Start here:
><https://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Persuaders-Vance-Packard/dp/097884310X>
>Ouch, that's expensive.
>
>>Note the survey results in the top paragraph. With rare exceptions, 
>>people are not buying these trucks to do the special things that trucks 
>>can do.
>
>Duly noted.  Also note that most surveys do not even being to scratch
>the surface of the buyers real motivations and through processes.  My
>favorite example was running a survey of whomever I could convince to
>answer my questions just after the Watergate mess became an
>embarrassment.  Mixed into the questions was "Did you vote for Nixon
>in the Nov 1972 election".  I asked about 60(?) people, mostly from
>the neighborhood where I was living.  Everyone claimed that they voted
>in that election and nobody admitted to voting for Nixon.  So much for
>the validity of opinion polls.
>
>If you also ask a random mob of monster truck buyers why they bought
>such an impractical vehicle, I suspect you won't get any honest
>answers.  Same with asking the same random mob why they own a gun.

If a pollster asked me who I voted for or why I did something and I'd
probably tell them to go f*** themselves.  (censorship is because
someone on RBT has indicated they are offended by obscenities)

--
C'est bon
Soloman