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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!news.szaf.org!inka.de!mips.inka.de!.POSTED.localhost!not-for-mail From: Christian Weisgerber <naddy@mips.inka.de> Newsgroups: sci.lang Subject: Re: Mayday! Date: Thu, 1 May 2025 14:06:50 -0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <slrn1016vvq.171v.naddy@lorvorc.mips.inka.de> References: <vuvl7f$2i85e$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 1 May 2025 14:06:50 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: lorvorc.mips.inka.de; posting-host="localhost:::1"; logging-data="41101"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@mips.inka.de" User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (FreeBSD) Bytes: 2720 Lines: 44 On 2025-05-01, Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> wrote: > "Mayday!" is an international radio distress signal. > It comes, we are told, from French "m'aidez!" (help me). Or more likely not. Nobody has managed to suggest a convincing derivation from French. > But we were taught in school that, while the object pronoun (me) is > normally proclitic to the verb, in the imperative it must follow it > (aidez-moi!). When somebody starts with "we were taught in school", I always expect the next part to explain how that was incomplete if not outright wrong. But here it is correct. For the affirmative imperative, the object pronoun is attached to the end of the verb. A prime exhibit is the colloquial French phrase "t'inquiète!", which means 'don't worry', although a surface analysis would suggest just the opposite. But it's shortened from the negative imperative "(ne) t'inquiète pas", and although the whole negation has been elided, the word order keeps it distinct from "inquiète-toi" 'do worry!'. > The use as a distress call dates back only to the 1920s, > so I don't think we can appeal to some earlier stage of the language to > justify "m'aidez". There is no such earlier stage anyway. Object pronoun enclisis with affirmative imperatives is a pan-Romance feature. > The other possibility is that it's really "m'aider", > which (OED suggests) could be either short for "venez m'aider" (come and Another problem is that none of those phrases are like an idiomatic French call for help, which would be "au secours!" or "à l'aide!". > help me!), or perhaps the "imperative infinitive". This expression gave > me pause. I think I have encountered French infinitives used with > imperative force, but my experience doesn't tell me what contexts they > are used in and with what pragmatic force. Cooking recipes come to mind. -- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de