Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Eric Pozharski <apple.universe@posteo.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Google Groups
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2024 11:29:42 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <slrnv8vgh6.1bv.apple.universe@freight.zombinet>
References: <IbgjO.3$ySE.1@fx11.iad> <QygjO.2$VBH2.0@fx16.ams4>
 <nHhjO.47$sE%9.32@fx14.iad> <v6kidr$1iva2$1@dont-email.me>
 <mExjO.6114$BFg.3642@fx13.iad> <1uet8j1n4m69s3o2lugvdjalp1h4flm1l1@4ax.com>
 <v6mggk$1tjtq$4@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2024 19:33:14 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="019401401bd3e335f2d9e0d524832eb4";
	logging-data="2702969"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18CXVRQhYbdU2orNJW7Dkzs"
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:H7deNeFS7IBayDy9beehOrEYntM=
Bytes: 3182

with <v6mggk$1tjtq$4@dont-email.me> Zen Cycle wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Jul 2024 15:19:46 GMT, Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:

*SKIP* [ 21 lines   3 levels deep]
>>> This forces you to use commercial services.
>
> Other usenet services are private for-profit. They are all
> "commercial".  ES is a private non-profit _commercial_ service as
> defined by the SCOTUS in a case called Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation
> v. Secretary of Labor (1985) 471 U.S. 290, where a commercial service
> is determined by a test of three questions:
>
> 1. Do the activities of the nonprofit serve the general public?
> 2. Does the nonprofit competes with other commercial enterprises?
> 3. Does the nonprofit derives an unfair advantage over others because it 
> does not have to comply with Wage & Hour Laws?

What're "Wage & Hour Laws"?

*SKIP* [  5 lines   1 level deep]
> "in general, if a non-profit draws consumers from wide swaths of
> society, and such consumers pay for services,

If "wide swaths of society" is understood as loose collection of
consumers for for-profit private services then -- does ES draws such
consumers?

> especially when some practitioners at the nonprofit charge full fees
> for some of the work they do,

I'm not certain that occasional voluntary donations constitute "full
fees for some of the work".

> it would likely be difficult for the nonprofit to deny that it was a
> “commercial enterprise.” On some level, it was competing with other
> “commercial enterprises,” meaning private practices, professional
> corporations, or even possibly other nonprofits in the area. "
> Very clearly, ES.org qualifies as a commercial service

Then again, I wholehartedly agree that with definitions such as above
whatever is in spot-light is "private non-profit commercial service".
But!  Does ES withstand test?

p.s.  TK is still where he is.

p.p.s.  Email blacklisting is orthogonal can of worms.

-- 
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
Stallman's goal for GNU is even simpler: Freedom