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From: Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: OK, WTF Happened ? Zelensky/Trump Blowup
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2025 04:05:38 -0000 (UTC)
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On 2025-03-01, Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> wrote:
> Borax Man <rotflol2@hotmail.com> wrote in news:slrnvs4ptd.n7b.rotflol2
> @geidiprime.bvh:
>
>
>> 
>> IF you side with Zelensky, then do tell us please how you plan to DEFEAT
>> Russia. 
>
>
>     Defeat?
>
>     The founding fathers had no plan
> to "defeat" Britain, Nixon had no plan 
> to "defeat" N Vietnam, Israel had no
> plan to "defeat" Egypt, Poland had no
> plan to "defeat" Germany in 1939. 
>
>      Most wars are not about "defeat"
> but estabishing borders and political
> recognition and sovereignty. 
>
>      Ukraine only seeks to repel an
> invasion of its country. Is that so 
> wrong? 
>

The point isn't whether what Ukraine wants to do is right or wrong, the point is whether Russia can be defeated.

Poland did NOT defeat Nazi Germany.  They were occupied by a
totalitarian power at the start of the war, and remained captive at the
end.  The country lost 20% of its population to end up under the shadow
of Communism.

The Founding Fathers (of the US) only had to kick the Brits out, or get
them to accept surrender.  But Russia is not Britain.  Egypt is not
Russia either.


>
>
>
>>  Siding with Zelensky, saying that he should not give Russia a
>> millimeter, all that bluster is worthless unless you can defeat Russia
>> in this war, and how do you plan to do that?
>
>    
>      Why should Zelensky give up an inch
> of his country to a hostile invading army?
>

He doesn't have to.  Just be willing to lose thousands more men to do
so.  Just be willing to spend tens, or hundreds of billions more to do
that.  Those are real people, dying terrible, agonizing deaths.


The "blow up" wasn't because Zelensky wants to continue to fight, its
because he wants to continue to fight WITH US support.  The war is
partly a proxy war between US and Russia anyway, so its not Zelensky's
call alone.

As I said, you can't assume you get all you want in a war.  By the way,
if you look at WWII, Britain ended the war LOSING.  They failed to
protect their empire.  They failed to keep Poland free and failed to
defend the balance of power.  It should also be noted, that Hitler did
not seek a World War.  We like to portray him as someone who deliberated
wanted a world war, but he, and his generals were wary of starting
another world war, particularly since they experienced, first hand, the
First World War.  Hitler thought his military adventures would be short,
swift.  Does Putin want World War 3?  Very unlikely.  Does Putin perhaps
want the Baltic states?  Maybe.  But are we willing to go to war, with
an unknown outcome over that?

Hence the need for a deal, for diplomacy.  YOU are not going to fight
and die for Ukraine, and most of those who have the flag in their Social
Media bio aren't either.  Most European leaders can't either, they don't
have the army.  They need the US, and the US has voted an administration
which clearly thinks a deal is in THEIR better interest than war.

So again, how would YOU kick the Russians out?