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From: Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com>
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv,uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: The heatwave and the global warming question
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 16:53:15 +0100
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On 23/08/2022 17:18, Java Jive wrote:
> On 23/08/2022 16:04, Indy Jess John wrote:
>>
>> The current models therefore provide reasonable approximations rather 
>> than absolute proof.
>>
>> No doubt you want evidence. Here are your cross references:
>> [1] Lisiecki & Raymo (2005)
> 
> No mention of Milankovitch in paper, which is an attempt to provide 
> standard reference data, a sort of yardstick if you like, of δ(18)O, an 
> isotope of oxygen, over a period of interest:
> 
> https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2004PA001071
> 
> 2[2] Alley [2003] recently called for a paleoceanographic “type section” 
> to which all paleoceanographic measurements could be compared, in the 
> same way that researchers have used data gathered by the Second 
> Greenland Ice Sheet Project (GISP2) and Greenland Ice Core Project 
> (GRIP) in studies of the last glacial cycle. A type section which 
> provides a common timescale and reference of comparison for all 
> paleoceanographic records would improve communication within the 
> community and elucidate subtle differences among the ever-growing number 
> of paleoceanographic records. Here we present a new 5.3-Myr benthic δ18O 
> stack (the “LR04” stack), which we propose would make an excellent 
> paleoceanographic type section for the Pliocene-Pleistocene."
> 
>> [2] Willeit M, Ganopolski A, Calov R, Brovkin V (April 2019)
> 
> Also no mention of Milankovitch:
> 
> https://www.science.org/doi/full/10.1126/sciadv.aav7337
> 
> "Abstract
> Variations in Earth’s orbit pace the glacial-interglacial cycles of the 
> Quaternary, but the mechanisms that transform regional and seasonal 
> variations in solar insolation into glacial-interglacial cycles are 
> still elusive. Here, we present transient simulations of coevolution of 
> climate, ice sheets, and carbon cycle over the past 3 million years. We 
> show that a gradual lowering of atmospheric CO2 and regolith removal are 
> essential to reproduce the evolution of climate variability over the 
> Quaternary. The long-term CO2 decrease leads to the initiation of 
> Northern Hemisphere glaciation and an increase in the amplitude of 
> glacial-interglacial variations, while the combined effect of CO2 
> decline and regolith removal controls the timing of the transition from 
> a 41,000- to 100,000-year world. Our results suggest that the current 
> CO2 concentration is unprecedented over the past 3 million years and 
> that global temperature never exceeded the preindustrial value by more 
> than 2°C during the Quaternary."
> 
> Note the part that reads ...
> 
> "Our results suggest that the current CO2 concentration is unprecedented 
> over the past 3 million years and that global temperature never exceeded 
> the preindustrial value by more than 2°C during the Quaternary."
> 
> ... and either way there doesn't seem to be anything in either paper 
> which invalidates my basic description of how the ice-age cycles were 
> primarily controlled by orbital factors.
> 
I have noted that part and find that 
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Vostok_420ky_4curves_insolation.jpg
doesn't bear this out.

Which suggests that there are places on Earth to prove any starting 
position.  I am happier with the Antarctic core because unlike 
Greenland, Antarctica has never been colonised.

JIm