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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 21:41:14 +0000
From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Expedition to Europa
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 17:41:14 -0400
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On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:26:56 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:

>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 11:35:47 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 04:04:11 -0700, Don Y
>><blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On 6/28/2024 10:08 PM, bitrex wrote:
>>>> On 6/27/2024 5:17 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>>> Most big librarys carry AW.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> .<https://europa.nasa.gov/mission/about/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it turns out that there is life in the ocean of Europa, which has
>>>>>> existed for something like four billion years, it supports the general
>>>>>> idea of "random but inevitable" theories of Abiogenesis.
>>>>>
>>>>> _Remembrance of Earth's Past_ has an interesting take on the whole
>>>>> notion behind an "empty" universe.  It's a tedious read (mainly for
>>>>> me coming from a non-chinese culture... just keeping track of the
>>>>> characters is difficult) but has some good ideas to chew on at its core.
>>>> 
>>>> My guess: The Universe is mammoth, the technological and energy requirements of 
>>>> even short-distance interstellar travel are immense, the lifespan of 
>>>> technological civilizations is highly time-limited before such a civilization 
>>>> destroys itself, technological civilizations are very rare to begin with, and 
>>>> no technological civilization ever survives long enough to attempt it.
>>>
>>>That wouldn't explain why there are no *signs* of intelligent life.
>>>
>>>*We* can't (yet) travel interstellar distances in single lifetimes
>>>but I'm sure anyone with technology comparable to ours would be able to
>>>*detect* our presence (given that we seem to make no attempt at "hiding")
>>>
>>>_If the Universe Is Teeming with Aliens ... WHERE IS EVERYBODY?_ gives some
>>>interesting takes on the Fermi paradox.
>>
>>That's a bit self-important.  
>>
>>If the universe is teaming with life, but alien civilizations capable
>>of interstellar travel are exceedingly rare, there would be little
>>reason for those spacefaring aliens to visit any but the other
>>advanced alien civilizations.  
>>
>>We might get the equivalent of an anthropologist ever few million
>>year, and they would do whatever needed to prevent detection by that
>>which they study.
>>
>>Joe Gwinn
>
>An intelligent alien lifeform is probably thousands of light-years
>away. Unless they have a Warp Drive, there's no way they would want to
>visit us.

The claim being made was that because we were not seeing any
intelligent aliens, they must not exist, or are very rare.  Which does
not follow.


>A very advanced robot might.

Even if they do have warp drives, they may still send a robot.

But given the technological gulf between Earthlings and any
civilization possessing any warp drive, we won't detect them unless
they want us to.


Joe Gwinn