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From: Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Modeling the origins of life: New evidence for an 'RNA World'
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 20:59:43 -0700
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On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 16:01:51 -0700, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com>:

>On 3/11/24 3:33 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Mar 2024 15:08:01 -0700, the following appeared
>> in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
>> <eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
>> 
>>> On 3/11/24 2:46 PM, Richmond wrote:
>>>> erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/11/24 12:24 PM, Richmond wrote:
>>>>>> JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>     Pro Plyd wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://phys.org/news/2024-03-life-evidence-rna-world.html ...  But
>>>>>>>> how did all of this begin? In the origins of life, long before
>>>>>>>> cells and proteins and DNA, could a similar sort of evolution have
>>>>>>>> taken place on a simpler scale? Scientists in the 1960s, including
>>>>>>>> Salk Fellow Leslie Orgel, proposed that life began with the "RNA
>>>>>>>> World," a hypothetical era in which small, stringy RNA molecules
>>>>>>>> ruled the early Earth and established the dynamics of Darwinian
>>>>>>>> evolution.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Darwinian Evolution," besides making things difficult when everyone
>>>>>>> later claims that they're not "Darwinists," is just plain
>>>>>>> wrong. Darwin believed that if an animal ran a lot, their leg
>>>>>>> muscles would grow and produce "Bigger, running-around-a-lot"
>>>>>>> Gemmules which would flow to the gonads and be passed on the the
>>>>>>> next generation, who would be born with the bigger, running around a
>>>>>>> lot muscles.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As i pointed out many times, and will point out many more times
>>>>>>> because, let's face it, the last thing anyone in this group ever
>>>>>>> wanted was science but...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darwin REJECTED evolution. He didn't believe in it. Oh, he did
>>>>>>> eventually use that word but this is the internet.  We're all quite
>>>>>>> accustomed to people misusing terms, and Darwin was a pioneer. In
>>>>>>> fact, later, in the Communist world, Stalin and then Mao banned
>>>>>>> evolution, and in it's place promoted Darwin's ideas. Renamed, of
>>>>>>> course. But they were all copying the exact same source material,
>>>>>>> Lamarcksim...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darwin was an idiot. And he certainly never invented or discovered
>>>>>>> evolution. Evolution was already quite old by the time that Darwin
>>>>>>> sabotaged science with his inability to grasp it. No, sorry,
>>>>>>> evolution was always part of "Common Descent," and if you do the
>>>>>>> Google you'll find sources pushing THAT idea back into the thousands
>>>>>>> of years..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Darwin's single biggest impact on science -- REAL science, as
>>>>>>> opposed to the British aristocracy glorifying itself -- was HOLDING
>>>>>>> BACK science in the English speaking world for 20 years by becoming
>>>>>>> the face of Naturalism and throwing aside Mendel.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, it took that long -- 20 years -- for some Brit with a stick up
>>>>>>> his ass to pretend that he made Mendel's discoveries...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is important. It's not a small error. When someone spews an
>>>>>>> oxymoron like "Darwinian Evolution" it's not because they're so
>>>>>>> meticulous in their work. No. It's because they are hitting
>>>>>>> buckets. They're communicating.  They are invoking things that the
>>>>>>> layman will recognize as familiar. They are, as the saying goes,
>>>>>>> "Putting lipstick on a pig."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I said DARWINIAN evolution! That's cus I is edu ma kated. I know
>>>>>>> stuff."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Again, not a small error. It makes the piece as being meant for "The
>>>>>>> un edu ma kated"... the only people who might find "Darwinian"
>>>>>>> evolution sciency!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Demand accuracy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't you think you're worth it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't you think the promotion of science is worth it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Demand accuracy. Don't tolerate being dummed down by your efforts to
>>>>>>> learn and grow. It's not an unreasonable request, demanding
>>>>>>> publications that are accurate.  >> Darwin didn't know about genes,
>>>>>>> but then his book was published >> before >> Mendel, so you can't
>>>>>>> really blame him for that. As for rejecting >> evolution, well the
>>>>>>> last line in 'The Origin of Species' is: >> ", from so simple a
>>>>>>> beginning endless forms most beautiful and most >> wonderful have
>>>>>>> been, and are being, evolved."  >> I demand accuracy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> JTEM has for many years trolled many newsgroups. Whether he is a
>>>>> genuine fool or just plays one on the net is probably impossible to
>>>>> tell. Almost everything is this gem is rubbish.
>>>>
>>>> But what's the point in replying to it just to say it is rubbish? I
>>>> wouldn't have even noticed it if no one had replied to it.
>>>>
>>> Sometimes he just ticks people off.  Thunderbird has a little trash can
>>> icon that I use to reply to him.
>>>
>> Even better to never see his posts at all; my "Special
>> Childrens' File" sees to that quite nicely, so I only need
>> to ignore responses to him, which cuts the time I waste on
>> him by quite a bit.
>>>
>Thunderbird also has filters that can eliminate obnoxious posters, but 
>I've found that sometimes it effectively clogs the pipe to the 
>newsgroup.  If I delete the filters, lots of stuff shows up immediately. 
>  Has anybody else observed this?
>
That doesn't happen with Agent; it can filter on specific
posters. of course, nymshifting by a**holes gets around
that, but some things are impervious to solution.
>
-- 

Bob C.

"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
 the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

- Isaac Asimov