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From: olcott <polcott2@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_Working_out_the_details_of_the_steps_of_=C4=A4=2EH_?=
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Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2024 10:00:36 -0600
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On 3/9/2024 1:05 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 3/8/24 10:40 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/9/2024 12:25 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 3/8/24 9:55 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* ⊢* Ĥ.Hqy ∞ // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ halts
>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqn   // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ does not halt
>>>>
>>>> Expecting Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to correctly report on the behavior of
>>>> Ĥ ⟨Ĥ⟩ is a little nuts because Ĥ contradicts Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩.
>>>
>>> But that is the job it signed up for when it tried to call itself a 
>>> Halt Decider.
>>>
>>
>> There is no correct answer that Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ can possibly
>> provide that corresponds to the behavior of this Ĥ ⟨Ĥ⟩.
>> Therefore it must have a basis for its wrong answer.
>>
>>
> 
> WHY?
> 
> What is the actual grounds for that statement?

Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ cannot just sit around scratching its head it
must do something. As soon as we have the basis for what
it will do, then H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ has its basis to correctly
decide halting.

All of the following that you said simply proves that you are
not paying close enough attention.

No one gives a rat's as that the input gets the wrong answer
as long as H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ has some basis to get the right answer.

> 
> If it doesn't give the right answer, it just isn't a Halt Decider, and 
> thus isn't actually constrained by the definition of one.
> 
> H either IS or it IS NOT a Halt Decider. Being "close" doesn't make it one.
> 
> Once you admit it isn't going to be a Halt Decider, you need to admit 
> that and then decide what you are going to try to make it to meet your 
> need. (If you have one).
> 
> The original task for a Halt Decider was Theorem proving and Knowledge 
> gathering, where you needed to either be 100% accurate, or it didn't 
> help. (you don't prove a theorem with a 99% accuracy, only 100%)
> 
> For the goal you have stated, you also need 100% or you have nothing. If 
> you are willing to accept approximate and slightly flawed decisions, you 
> don't need to refute the Halting Theorem, as it alread allows for those 
> to exist.
> 
> Just like if you want to be able to refute most falsehood, you don't 
> need the Truth Predicate, as most major false statement are provably 
> false, (if the person will look at logic, and if not, having the 
> predicate wouldn't help anyway).

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer