Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: immibis <news@immibis.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IFZlcmlmaWVkIGZhY3QgdGhhdCDEpC5IIOKfqMSk4p+pIOKfqMSk?=
 =?UTF-8?B?4p+pIGFuZCBIIOKfqMSk4p+pIOKfqMSk4p+pIGhhdmUgZGlmZmVyZW50IGJlaGF2?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?ior_ZFC_--new_focus--?=
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 01:09:53 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <uso6gi$3t0l7$3@dont-email.me>
References: <usia2e$2f2pd$1@dont-email.me> <usj2e3$2jut2$1@dont-email.me>
 <usj2je$2jutc$3@dont-email.me> <usj2rs$2jut2$2@dont-email.me>
 <usj32s$2k5id$1@dont-email.me> <usjd20$2plge$1@dont-email.me>
 <usjef5$1cf5q$6@i2pn2.org> <usjfj8$2q613$1@dont-email.me>
 <usjgs6$1cf5q$7@i2pn2.org> <usjhks$2qhfq$1@dont-email.me>
 <usjj7v$1cf5q$8@i2pn2.org> <uskg1p$30hr1$1@dont-email.me>
 <KEkHN.386271$vFZa.185803@fx13.iad> <uskog1$32h3c$1@dont-email.me>
 <uskpe3$32l00$1@dont-email.me> <uskq04$32h3c$3@dont-email.me>
 <usks70$1enef$1@i2pn2.org> <usktro$33lov$1@dont-email.me>
 <usl1c7$1enef$9@i2pn2.org> <usll3l$38f21$1@dont-email.me>
 <lttHN.366350$q3F7.85039@fx45.iad> <uslou1$390q2$1@dont-email.me>
 <uslpbr$1enef$17@i2pn2.org> <uslu1i$3do6h$1@dont-email.me>
 <usm07p$1enef$21@i2pn2.org> <usm1sg$3ebq5$2@dont-email.me>
 <usm2ps$1enef$22@i2pn2.org> <usm3eg$3em6b$1@dont-email.me>
 <usm4id$1enef$24@i2pn2.org> <usm5np$3f27j$2@dont-email.me>
 <usm6p0$1enef$25@i2pn2.org> <usn0d2$3klcn$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 00:09:54 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="5014fc5af6e812aed8b8217da2a65189";
	logging-data="4096679"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+DEdHm64O1onpGD78ILaO1"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:6pNc1nFNEMIQzcnwmrdeRDjXnp8=
In-Reply-To: <usn0d2$3klcn$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
Bytes: 4276

On 11/03/24 14:19, olcott wrote:
>   *Every implementation of Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ gets the wrong answer*

You agree. And since every implementation of Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ gets the same 
answer as H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ (it is stipulated) then obviously H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ also 
gets the wrong answer.

>> It is also true that every instance of that question has a right 
>> answer, it just isn't the one that H gives.
>>
> 
> Every decision problem that includes undecidable instances only has
> these instances because there is something wrong with the decision
> problem specification.

so what is wrong with it?

>     The proof of the halting problem assumes a universal halt
>     test exists and then provides S as an example of a program
>     that the test cannot handle. But S is not a program at all.
>     It is not even a conceptual object, and this is due to
>     inconsistencies in the specification of the halting function.
>     (Stoddart: 2017)

If you tell me a consistent universal halt test I will tell you a 
consistent program that the test cannot handle. It will definitely be a 
program. There will be no valid rebuttal that it isn't a program at all.

> *This is my unique contribution to the field of the Halting Problem*
> *This is my unique contribution to the field of the Halting Problem*
> *This is my unique contribution to the field of the Halting Problem*
> 
> When we ask H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩:
> Does your input halt on its input?

We do not ask it that. We ask it whether Ĥ halts on input ⟨Ĥ⟩. This is 
an objective specification, not subjective.

> meaning: Would Ĥ ⟨Ĥ⟩ halt on its input, then H gets the wrong answer.
> 
> When we ask the exact same question meaning:
> Will you halt if you never abort your simulation?

We can't ask that question because it is subjective. And that is a 
different question.

> Then every H always gets the right answer.

If you ask me to recite Einstein's equations, I will answer wrong. If 
you ask me 1+1, I will answer right. That I answer correctly to one 
question has no relevance to that I answer incorrectly to another question.