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From: Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Frank and his electric car
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 10:32:49 -0400
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On 3/12/2024 10:00 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Tom Kunich <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Mon Mar 11 14:10:43 2024 AMuzi  wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2024 12:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>> On Sun Mar 10 14:31:34 2024 Bob F  wrote:
>>>>> On 3/10/2024 8:53 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>> Frank, here is a statement from the National Highway Traffic Safety Board
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In August 2012, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
>>>>>> (NHTSA) decided to begin a US$8.75 million study of whether
>>>>>> lithium-ion batteries in plug-electric vehicles pose a potential fire
>>>>>> hazard. The research looked at whether the high-voltage batteries can
>>>>>> cause fires when they are being charged and when the vehicles are
>>>>>> involved in an accident.[23] The research from 2013 was initiated to
>>>>>> evaluate the fire risk 400-volt lithium ion batteries pose. General
>>>>>> Motors assisted the NHTSA researchers, and the study was issued in
>>>>>> October 2017. The report concluded, "...ignition of flammable
>>>>>> electrolytic solvents used in Li-ion battery systems are anticipated
>>>>>> to be somewhat comparable to or perhaps slightly less than those for
>>>>>> gasoline or diesel vehicular fuels. The overall consequences for
>>>>>> Li-ion batteries are expected to be less because of the much smaller
>>>>>> amounts of flammable solvent released and burning in a catastrophic failure situation."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This entire subject started when I attempted to warn you that EV's
>>>>>> are unsafe to an extent that you're not aware of. But you violently
>>>>>> denied that with all of the BS you could muster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right there it says that EV fires are about as often as gasoline
>>>>>> fires on ICE vehicles. That means RARE but ICE cars do not have
>>>>>> gasoline explosions and are almost always caused by wrecks whereas EV
>>>>>> explosions occur for little to no reason and are so violent that you
>>>>>> cannot exit to safety in most cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realize that you believe that buying an EV proves your God-like
>>>>>> judgement but if I were you I would put very many very loud fire
>>>>>> detectors around your home. And keep their batteries up to date.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Australia?s Department of Defence funded EV FireSafe to look into the
>>>>> question. It found there was a 0.0012% chance of a passenger electric
>>>>> vehicle battery catching fire, compared with a 0.1% chance for internal
>>>>> combustion engine cars. (The Home Office said it was unable to provide
>>>>> data for the UK.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Elon Musk?s Tesla is the world?s biggest maker of electric cars. It says
>>>>> the number of fires on US roads involving Teslas from 2012 to 2021 was
>>>>> 11 times lower per mile than the figure for all cars, the vast majority
>>>>> of which have petrol or diesel engines."
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/20/do-electric-cars-pose-a-greater-fire-risk-than-petrol-or-diesel-vehicles
>>>>>
>>>>> https://internationalfireandsafetyjournal.com/research-highlights-lower-fire-risk-in-electric-cars-compared-to-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Frank claims there to be 12 million EV's on the road and using the
>>>> Australian numbers that would put the number of EV fires at 14,000.
>>>> Frank claims that there were only 12 fires.
>>>
>>>
>>> There are no good vehicle fires:
>>>
>>> https://www.theblaze.com/news/watch-bodycam-footage-released-after-los-angeles-teen-burns-to-death-in-horrifying-car-crash
>>>
>>> but thankfully auto immolation is relatively rare for both
>>> systems.
>>> -- 
>>> Andrew Muzi
>>> am@yellowjersey.org
>>> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Who could disagree with that? But if your ICE car is sitting in your
>> garage it is safe. If an EV is in the garage just sitting there it is
>> NOT. Elon has made them about a safe as possible for Lithium ion battery
>> but other companies do not have his experience and are only copying Tesla
>> without knowing why. This means that they make errors. Ford has hundreds
>> of engineers that can be assigned each and every stage of safety, it is
>> rare for EV manufacturers to have even a dozen. Should we be surprised if
>> they are simply not reliable?
>>
> 
> Tesla as with others buy batteries or licensed from others in Tesla case
> Panasonic since 2009. Nothing special about their batteries, indeed they
> chose 18650 types as they are ubiquitous than having to be special packs as
> some other makers had used.
> 
> As far as I’m aware batteries with one exception (Nissan Leaf) have
> massively outlasted doom laden expectations and have improved by some
> margin over the last decade or more.
> 
> The idea of using old car batteries for X products has rather fell short
> due to lack of supply ie the batteries are still largely in the cars.
> 
> Yes absolutely software can help with battery management and usage, and
> ignore damaged cells. But if not all cars I’d assume use protected
> batteries ie have a circuit to prevent damage and potentially fires. Ie
> it’s a physical component than relying on software.
> 
> As ever battery fires are overwhelming stuff that is cheap and poorly made,
> some of the early led bike lights the battery packs where very iffy and
> advice was to charge in your garage not your home and so on, as these where
> not consumer ready/quality, probably turn of the century I’d guess?
> 
> Roger Merriman
> 

"only copying Tesla
without knowing why. "

fer fucks sake...Now we know why tommy could never hold onto a job for a 
year.
-- 
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