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Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: Re: Proving my 2004 claim that some decider/input pairs are incorrect questions Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 11:12:08 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 88 Message-ID: <uspuso$caqa$4@dont-email.me> References: <usppqv$b9av$2@dont-email.me> <usptek$1l201$1@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 16:12:08 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2de151991156ec4f63802e311fdc7732"; logging-data="404298"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18hR4NMxvVlUzmajPnrmiLx" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:cjBQ6/4UykeX1ffn3CPX5BNhB94= In-Reply-To: <usptek$1l201$1@i2pn2.org> Content-Language: en-US Bytes: 4503 On 3/12/2024 10:47 AM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 3/12/24 7:45 AM, olcott wrote: >> This is my 2004 work that proposes that the halting problem has >> an unsatisfiable specification thus asks an ill-formed question. >> Two PhD computer science professors agree with this analysis. >> >> E C R Hehner. *Objective and Subjective Specifications* >> WST Workshop on Termination, Oxford. 2018 July 18. >> See https://www.cs.toronto.edu/~hehner/OSS.pdf >> >> Bill Stoddart. *The Halting Paradox* >> 20 December 2017 >> https://arxiv.org/abs/1906.05340 >> arXiv:1906.05340 [cs.LO] >> >> Alan Turing's Halting Problem is incorrectly formed (PART-TWO) sci.logic >> On 6/20/2004 11:31 AM, Peter Olcott wrote: >> > PREMISES: >> > (1) The Halting Problem was specified in such a way that a solution >> > was defined to be impossible. >> > >> > (2) The set of questions that are defined to not have any possible >> > correct answer(s) forms a proper subset of all possible questions. >> > … >> > CONCLUSION: >> > Therefore the Halting Problem is an ill-formed question. >> > >> USENET Message-ID: >> <kZiBc.103407$Gx4.18142@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> >> >> *Direct Link to original message* >> http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3CkZiBc.103407%24Gx4.18142%40bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net%3E+ >> >> An incorrect YES/NO (thus polar) question is defined as any >> YES/NO question where both YES and NO are the wrong answer. >> Correctly answering incorrect questions is logically impossible. >> >> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqy ∞ // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ halts >> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqn // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ does not halt >> https://www.liarparadox.org/Peter_Linz_HP_317-320.pdf >> >> Because for every implementation of Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ that can >> possibly exist both YES and NO are the wrong answer to >> this question: Does Ĥ ⟨Ĥ⟩ halts on its input? >> >> This exactly meets the definition of an incorrect YES/NO >> question for this decider/input pair: Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ >> >> It is generally the case that the inability to do the >> logically impossible places no actual limit on anything >> or anyone otherwise CAD systems that cannot correctly >> draw square circles would be another limit to computation. >> >> The common fake rebuttal to this claim is to use the >> strawman deception to switch to some other decider/input >> pair besides Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ to deceptively try to show that >> the question is not incorrect on the basis of some other >> different question. >> >> >> > > Intentional LIE and fabrication. > > It has been explained why this is wrong, and your ignoring that says you > KNOW you are lying. > *I am telling the truth* *I am telling the truth* *I am telling the truth* ∀ H ∈ Turing_Machine_Deciders ∃ TMD ∈ Turing_Machine_Descriptions | Predicted_Behavior(H, TMD) != Actual_Behavior(TMD) In all of the H/TMD cases above where Predicted_Behavior(H, TMD) != Actual_Behavior(TMD) H is being asked a question where both YES and NO are the wrong answer. It is not that H is gagged and cannot answer, it is that both YES and NO are the wrong answer. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer