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From: olcott <polcott2@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: ZFC solution to incorrect questions: reject them
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2024 15:59:05 -0500
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On 3/14/2024 3:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 3/14/24 1:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 3/14/2024 3:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 3/14/24 12:32 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 3/14/2024 12:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 3/13/24 4:04 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 5:43 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 2:54 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 4:39 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 1:52 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 12:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 10:08 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 11:44 AM, immibis wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/03/24 04:55, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2024 10:49 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not quite. It always gets the wrong answer, but only one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of them for each quesiton.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They all gets the wrong answer on a whole class of questions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong. You said. yourself. that H1 gets the right answer 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for D.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Since it is a logical impossibility to determine the truth
>>>>>>>>>>>> value of a self-contradictory expression the requirement
>>>>>>>>>>>> for H to do this is bogus.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Shows you are just a LIAR, as there IS a truth value to the 
>>>>>>>>>>> expression that is the requirment for ANY SPECIFIC H.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Lying about me being a liar may possibly cost your soul*
>>>>>>>>>> *Lying about me being a liar may possibly cost your soul*
>>>>>>>>>> *Lying about me being a liar may possibly cost your soul*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no mapping from H(D,D) to Halts(D,D) that exists.
>>>>>>>>>> This proves that H(D,D) is being asked an incorrect question.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why, because it is NOT a LIE.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You don't even know the definiton of an incorrect question.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I invented it so I get to stipulate its meaning.
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/sci.lang/c/AO5Vlupeelo/m/nxJy7N2vULwJ
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, common technical term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cite a source.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The fact that there DOES exist a mapping Halt(M,d) that maps 
>>>>>>>>> all Turing Machines and there input to a result of Halting / 
>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting for EVERY member of that input set, means tha Halts 
>>>>>>>>> is a valid mapping to ask a decider to try to decider.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That part is true.
>>>>>>>> Likewise when you ask a man that has never been married:
>>>>>>>> Have you stopped beating tour wife?
>>>>>>>> There are some men that have stopped beating their wife.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right, because that question include a presumption of something 
>>>>>>> not actually present.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although there is a mapping from some men to YES/NO
>>>>>> there is no mapping from never unmarried men to YES/NO
>>>>>> thus the question is incorrect for all unmarried men.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although there is a mapping from some TM/input pairs to YES/NO
>>>>>> there is no mapping from H/D to YES/NO
>>>>>> thus the question is incorrect for H/D
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Except that the mapping requested is about the INPUTS to H, not H 
>>>>> itsef.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In order to see that it is an incorrect question we must examine
>>>> the question in detail. Making sure to always ignore this key detail
>>>> <is> cheating.
>>>>
>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqy ∞ // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ halts
>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqn   // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ does not halt
>>>> ∀Ĥ.H (Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ != Halts(⟨Ĥ⟩, ⟨Ĥ⟩))
>>>
>>> Which isn;t the question at all, so you are just shown to be a stupid 
>>> liar.
>>>
>>> The QUESTION is:
>>>
>>> Does the machine and input described by this input, Halt when run?
>>
>> The question posed to Ĥ.H has no correct answer, thus not the
>> same question at all.
> 
> But it DOES.

Then tell me which element of:
∀Ĥ.H (Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ != Halts(⟨Ĥ⟩, ⟨Ĥ⟩)) is correct and make sure that
you explain why this element is correct and don't try to switch
to any other element outside of the above specified set.

-- 
Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer