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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic Subject: =?UTF-8?B?UmU6IEgg4p+oxKTin6kg4p+oxKTin6kgaXMgY29ycmVjdCB3aGVuIHJl?= =?UTF-8?Q?ports_on_the_actual_behavior_that_it_sees_--outermost_H--?= Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 10:36:36 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 29 Message-ID: <ut14r4$2711j$1@dont-email.me> References: <usda7b$18hee$1@dont-email.me> <8634t1nx2p.fsf@yaxley.in> <usfase$1p1t5$1@dont-email.me> <usfd8m$1p8cg$4@dont-email.me> <ush8rt$288t1$1@dont-email.me> <usi0ej$2d0oc$2@dont-email.me> <usk8s1$2v4mk$1@dont-email.me> <uskg40$30hr1$2@dont-email.me> <usmk7t$3hvpu$1@dont-email.me> <usn4k9$3li08$1@dont-email.me> <usn7b3$3m7lb$1@dont-email.me> <usn89c$3m7k2$4@dont-email.me> <usp4u1$6nok$1@dont-email.me> <uspnac$aqak$1@dont-email.me> <usq00t$1l201$4@i2pn2.org> <usq0ru$caqa$11@dont-email.me> <usq8l4$1l201$27@i2pn2.org> <usq9mu$f2ir$1@dont-email.me> <usqaeb$1l201$29@i2pn2.org> <usqbfu$fgna$1@dont-email.me> <usuni1$1j259$1@dont-email.me> <usvo39$1rdem$1@dont-email.me> <usvqg5$1sokd$5@i2pn2.org> <usvrd2$1ru1i$3@dont-email.me> <usvta6$1sokd$8@i2pn2.org> <ut035h$1tjqn$1@dont-email.me> <ut06h6$1tev8$2@i2pn2.org> <ut06n9$1u3jv$6@dont-email.me> <ut0ajf$1tev8$5@i2pn2.org> <ut0bqc$1vmjr$1@dont-email.me> <ut0c3a$22qv6$1@dont-email.me> <ut0cek$1vmjr$2@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:36:36 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2be87f9a300b9d8f56cea0b658aff42e"; logging-data="2327603"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/W1z9F/MMGDf4Z91GThUWN" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:9oGn115RiajeFhLrJ4BE60BO9Wk= Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: <ut0cek$1vmjr$2@dont-email.me> Bytes: 3471 Op 15.mrt.2024 om 03:40 schreef olcott: > On 3/14/2024 9:34 PM, immibis wrote: >> On 15/03/24 03:29, olcott wrote: >>> >>> *Actually it is the fact that the top H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ (not a copy) does* >>> *get this correctly that proves that H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ does not meet the* >>> *original criteria because it does meet the above criteria* >>> >>> Execution trace of H applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ >>> (1) H applied ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ >>> (2) which begins at simulated ⟨Ĥ.q0⟩ >>> (a) Ĥ.q0 The input ⟨Ĥ⟩ is copied then transitions to Ĥ.H >>> (b) Ĥ.H applied ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ (input and copy) simulates ⟨Ĥ⟩ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ >>> (c) which begins at its own simulated ⟨Ĥ.q0⟩ to repeat the process >>> >>> The earliest point when Turing machine H can detect the repeating >> >> Whensoever H detects the repeating state and aborts it is incorrect >> because the state is not repeating. The state is repeating if H does >> not detect the repeating state. > > You keep saying that H(D,D) never really needs to abort the > simulation of its input because after H(D,D) has aborted the > simulation of this input it no longer needs to be aborted. > Do you finally understand it? Hah(Dah,Dah) does not need to abort, because Dah halts. Hah should look at its input Dah (which aborts), not at its non-input Dss (which does not abort).