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Path: ...!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!3.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> Newsgroups: sci.logic,comp.theory Subject: Re: ZFC solution to incorrect questions: reject them --discourse context -- Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 14:55:39 -0500 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 510 Message-ID: <ut4tfs$32b79$1@dont-email.me> References: <usq5uq$e4sh$1@dont-email.me> <usvmii$1qp6a$5@dont-email.me> <usvo5q$1sokc$2@i2pn2.org> <usvoep$1rdem$2@dont-email.me> <usvrop$1sokc$5@i2pn2.org> <usvs99$1ru1i$5@dont-email.me> <usvu7u$1sokd$10@i2pn2.org> <ut027d$1tcdv$1@dont-email.me> <ut06ub$1tev8$3@i2pn2.org> <ut079j$1u3jv$7@dont-email.me> <ut18pr$27u86$2@dont-email.me> <ut1mn9$2afad$7@dont-email.me> <ut24je$1vtvi$6@i2pn2.org> <ut25ro$2e06s$1@dont-email.me> <ut26nf$1vtvj$10@i2pn2.org> <ut276t$2e06s$6@dont-email.me> <ut28ab$1vtvj$18@i2pn2.org> <ut28qp$2e06s$12@dont-email.me> <ut2bf3$1vtvi$15@i2pn2.org> <ut2bs2$2f6aj$2@dont-email.me> <ut2h69$1vtvi$18@i2pn2.org> <ut2j5t$2gkoj$2@dont-email.me> <ut2k2h$1vtvj$26@i2pn2.org> <ut2kv3$2grvf$2@dont-email.me> <ut32se$2n598$3@dont-email.me> <ut3514$2n0uu$7@dont-email.me> <ut36tn$2notf$1@dont-email.me> <ut3a9n$2nm61$5@dont-email.me> <ut4eb8$23135$1@i2pn2.org> <ut4em7$2v4ce$3@dont-email.me> <ut4om5$23hsb$1@i2pn2.org> <ut4ps6$31jue$1@dont-email.me> <ut4sjj$23hsb$3@i2pn2.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2024 19:55:40 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="3fab022aa6617bd72f29c84b8d0d5aa2"; logging-data="3222761"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+0xXUSpFjK596xrSK6vRYD" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:SNPO42wZ9guV5ATD74Lbw1aVLzQ= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <ut4sjj$23hsb$3@i2pn2.org> Bytes: 26726 On 3/16/2024 2:40 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 3/16/24 11:53 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 3/16/2024 1:33 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 3/16/24 8:43 AM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 3/16/2024 10:37 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 3/15/24 10:21 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 3/15/2024 11:24 PM, immibis wrote: >>>>>>> On 16/03/24 04:52, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 10:15 PM, immibis wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 16/03/24 00:17, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 6:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/24 3:47 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 5:13 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/24 1:42 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 3:35 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/24 12:50 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 2:42 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/24 12:23 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 2:14 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/24 12:00 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 1:38 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/24 7:41 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/15/2024 5:44 AM, Mikko wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-15 01:12:19 +0000, olcott said: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/2024 8:06 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/24 4:45 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/2024 5:37 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/24 3:04 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/2024 4:55 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/24 1:59 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/2024 3:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/24 1:26 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/2024 3:20 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/24 12:32 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/14/2024 12:33 PM, Richard Damon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 4:04 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 5:43 PM, Richard Damon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 2:54 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 4:39 PM, Richard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 1:52 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 12:52 PM, Richard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/24 10:08 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/13/2024 11:44 AM, immibis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/03/24 04:55, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/12/2024 10:49 PM, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not quite. It always gets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong answer, but only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of them for each quesiton. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They all gets the wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answer on a whole class of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong. You said. yourself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that H1 gets the right answer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for D. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since it is a logical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossibility to determine the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> value of a self-contradictory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression the requirement >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for H to do this is bogus. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shows you are just a LIAR, as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there IS a truth value to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression that is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requirment for ANY SPECIFIC H. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Lying about me being a liar may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly cost your soul* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Lying about me being a liar may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly cost your soul* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Lying about me being a liar may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly cost your soul* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no mapping from H(D,D) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Halts(D,D) that exists. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This proves that H(D,D) is being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> asked an incorrect question. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why, because it is NOT a LIE. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't even know the definiton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of an incorrect question. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I invented it so I get to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stipulate its meaning. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/sci.lang/c/AO5Vlupeelo/m/nxJy7N2vULwJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, common technical term. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cite a source. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact that there DOES exist a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mapping Halt(M,d) that maps all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Turing Machines and there input >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to a result of Halting / >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non-Halting for EVERY member of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that input set, means tha Halts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a valid mapping to ask a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decider to try to decider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That part is true. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise when you ask a man that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has never been married: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you stopped beating tour wife? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are some men that have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped beating their wife. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, because that question >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> include a presumption of something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not actually present. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although there is a mapping from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some men to YES/NO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is no mapping from never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unmarried men to YES/NO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus the question is incorrect for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all unmarried men. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although there is a mapping from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some TM/input pairs to YES/NO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is no mapping from H/D to YES/NO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus the question is incorrect for H/D >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Except that the mapping requested is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the INPUTS to H, not H itsef. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In order to see that it is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect question we must examine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the question in detail. Making sure to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> always ignore this key detail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <is> cheating. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqy ∞ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ halts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hq0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.Hqn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> // Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ does not halt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ∀Ĥ.H (Ĥ.H ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ != Halts(⟨Ĥ⟩, ⟨Ĥ⟩)) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which isn;t the question at all, so you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are just shown to be a stupid liar. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========