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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Science has a news article up about "living fossils" Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:09:51 +0000 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 24 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <ut9lfu$7pud$1@dont-email.me> References: <uso3e0$3sddr$1@dont-email.me> <5uudnTnDGosMDnL4nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com> <uspc19$84nb$1@dont-email.me> <yr2dnSQUUo3UwW34nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com> <09eb9e29-3c55-41d7-bddb-2a150f25b316@gmail.com> <90g2vi53lor4frghejjttq66sevob4856s@4ax.com> <U9Kdne6x6OVsNGz4nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com> <luu7vi1s2bhim1fkp4jbl5eoiplv0rosg5@4ax.com> <W6CdnUa6YNTAn2r4nZ2dnZfqlJydnZ2d@giganews.com> <b0bgvidju89qetj71j97jo8ign22n3sr38@4ax.com> <W-WcnWlV5eTY02X4nZ2dnZfqlJ-dnZ2d@giganews.com> Reply-To: {$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="73873"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:YCzabFLfIw4WfhBZtTGb/OPurdI= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id 274FC229782; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:06:21 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD0222976E for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 11:06:19 -0400 (EDT) id 8B6DE5DD3F; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:09:56 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AFE75DCBE for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:09:56 +0000 (UTC) id 7A8F1DC01CB; Mon, 18 Mar 2024 16:09:51 +0100 (CET) Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: <W-WcnWlV5eTY02X4nZ2dnZfqlJ-dnZ2d@giganews.com> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX19vZB2D9uJ6QnGk6Fc4//bBxG6tdccBbNloVcNw4+S3BllZA3bs0DvnKWtvGmvAYz5xjxHIjykDgQ== Bytes: 3632 On 18/03/2024 14:23, John Harshman wrote: > > I'm afraid your understanding is wrong. Cyt b is part of the electron > transport chain. While it's true that most of the genes retained by > animal mitochondria are crucial parts of ATP production, so are many of > the genes lost from the mitochondrial genome after transfer to the > nuclear genome. Many of the proteins involved have to be imported into > the mitochondrion, which doesn't seem at all optimal. This seems more > like constructive neutral evolution than adaptive evolution. Now of > course loss of a crucial gene can only be neutral if it's already been > transferred to the nucleus, but that sort of transfer is quite common. > The usual fate of such transfers ("numts") is to decay over time, but > during the short period when they're functional, the mitochondrial gene > could potentially be lost. For a mitochondrial gene to be transferred to the nuclear genome, not only does a copy have to be integrated into the nuclear genome, and transcribed, but the resulting protein has to be imported into the mitochrondrion. If I understand correctly that usually (universally?) requires the acquisition of a mitochondrial targeting sequence. -- alias Ernest Major