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From: Mark Isaak <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: CONTRARY EVIDENCE (WASRe: Evide)nce!
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2024 20:44:58 -0700
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On 3/19/24 9:13 AM, Ron Dean wrote:
> Mark Isaak wrote:
>> On 3/17/24 4:25 PM, Ron Dean wrote:
>>>  > [...]
>>> The most vexing problem I have with evolution is the dogma of a 
>>> blind, random, unguided process.
>>
>> Perhaps you will feel better, then, knowing that every evolutionist 
>> also has a vexing problem with evolution as a dogma of a blind, 
>> random, unguided process.  (In their case, the vexation typically 
>> comes from knowing that other people mistake evolution for that.)
>>
>>> I'm an engineer. In engineering we never see this, there no chance 
>>> that a complex program can undergo random changes without dire 
>>> consequence. There might possibly be on rare occasion where an 
>>> unguided change might have no effect. Engineering starts out with an 
>>> objective or goal,  so must evolution. If there's no goal, then what 
>>> distinguishes a beneficial mutation from a bad mutation. Survival one 
>>> might say? But no! offspring with bad mutations can do frequently 
>>> survive, protected by the mother. And they can have offspring; only 
>>> the worst die out.
>>
>> Your "I'm an engineer" comment sounds like an ecologist specializing 
>> in whale migrations glancing at a paper on fern genetics and 
>> commenting, "I'm a biologist. In biology we never see this."
>>
>> Take a few years to study evolution algorithms.  There is an entire 
>> field of engineering dedicated to the study and utilization of what 
>> you say does not exist.
>>
>>> The members that usually survival depends largely upon luck, 
>>> surviving to adulthood without being eaten by other beast while at 
>>> rest or asleep at night and living long enough to reproduce is real. 
>>> The fittest is in reality survival of the luckiest. In other cases 
>>> massive numbers of eggs are laid. Sea turtles for example, lay eggs 
>>> by thousands and they hatch and rush forwards into the sea, except 
>>> for the large numbers that become food for birds and other animals. 
>>> Another consideration is the fact that each cell has it's own DNA 
>>> proofreading and repair systems, a defective cell can repair itself 
>>> or it is destroyed.
>>>
>>> Another vexing issue for me is the will to survive. In the case of 
>>> the turtles, it's as if they _know_ they are in danger, and seek the 
>>> protection of the sea. How do the know. Instinct where did instinct 
>>> come from. Going back the first living cell. What was the impetuous 
>>> of dead inorganic chemicals to created a living cell. Did the first 
>>> living cell have the will to survive? Where did this will come from?
>>
>> Have you thought of publishing your doubts in a scientific venue? 
>> Probably not, maybe because if you have an ounce of sense you would 
>> realize that your points have been raised and satisfactorily answered 
>> long ago, probably within a couple months of when _Origins_ was 
>> published.  But more likely because your unshakeable conviction that 
>> everyone who disagrees with you is a dogmatist makes you think it 
>> doesn't matter to you what the scientists say in any case.
>>
> You just pass over everything without any explanation. You cannot fault 
> the implied message, so what do you do: you shoot the messenger. Which 
> is about the only thing I ever get from you!

You have shown repeatedly that you have no interest in answers to your 
challenges, so why should I waste my time?  If you really want answers, 
prove it.

If you really want answers, you could find them. Try a library.

-- 
Mark Isaak
"Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That
doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell