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From: "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no>
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: [SR] The traveler of Tau Ceti
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2024 14:58:31 +0100
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Den 27.03.2024 14:23, skrev Richard Hachel:
> Le 27/03/2024 à 13:24, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
>> Den 27.03.2024 07:23, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>> Le 26/03/2024 à 21:45, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
>>>> Den 22.03.2024 09:49, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>>>> Le 21/03/2024 à 21:05, "Paul B. Andersen" a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You claim that the speed of an object in an inertial frame
>>>>>> may be several times the speed of light, but will always be
>>>>>> measured to be less than c.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just that I claim it, it's that it's logical, coherent, 
>>>>> mathematical.

Right.
Newtonian Mechanics is logical and mathematical coherent.
And falsified.

>>>>>
>>>>> Already forty years ago, I gave the five basic equations (hundreds 
>>>>> will follow) of SR
The "Hachel theory" has nothing to do with SR.
The speed of the object is what Newtonian Mechanics predicts.
And then you claim that the measured speed will always be
the speed divided by sqrt(1+Vr²/c²) where Vr is the speed.

So your theory is:
"It is impossible to measure time and speed".

A genial theory! :-D

>>>>>
>>>>> To²=Tr²+Et²
>>>>> To=Tr.sqrt(1+Vr²/c²)
>>>>> Tr=To.sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)
>>>>> Vo=Vr/sqrt(1+Vr²/c²)
>>>>> Vr=Vo/sqrt(1-Vo²/c²)
>>>>
>>>> In the Large Hadron Collider [LHC] at Cern the measured speed
>>>> of the protons is Vo = 0.9999999896⋅c
>>>>
>>>> The circumference of the LHC and the time to go around
>>>> the circuit are precisely known.
>>>>
>>>> Are you claiming that the real speed of the protons in the LHC is
>>>>   Vr = 6927⋅c ?
>>>
>>> Absolutely.
>>>
>>> That's what I said.
>>
>> Since it is you, Doctor Richard Hachel, i will assume you are serious.
>> (Nobody but you could seriously make such a ridiculous claim.)
>>
>> You are obviously ignorant of how a synchrotron works.

You are obviously still ignorant.
You never read what you are told.

>>
>> The protons in the LHC are moving around a ring with
>> circumference 26659 m. The ring consist of straight
>> stretches and bends. In the straight stretches there
>> are eight RF-cavities which accelerate the protons.
>> In the bends there are magnets which make the path of
>> the protons bent. The protons will radiate some of their
>> kinetic energy as synchrotron radiation (light with a special
>> spectrum) in the bends, and when the synchrotron is in steady
>> state at peak power, the energy gained in the RF-cavities will
>> be lost in the bends.
>>
>> In a RF-cavity there is an electric field which is changing
>> direction sinusoidally all the time. The protons are moving in
>> bunches, and a bunch must be at a RF-cavity exactly at the time
>> when the electric field is at peak value in the right direction.
>> Since there are many (N) bunches in the ring, and each bunch are
>> going around the ring many times (M) per second, the frequency
>> of the RF-field in the RF-cavity must be a multiple of N x M Hz.
>> The nominal frequency is 400.8 MHz, but this is finely tuned
>> depending on the speed of the protons.
>>
>> The point is that the speed of the protons is very precisely known,
>> and the measured and real speed of the protons is the same.
>>
>> You are claiming that the protons are going around the ≈ 27 km ring
>> ≈ 78 million times per second.
>> The real value is ≈ 11.25 thousand times per second.
>>
>> Don't you think the physicists at CERN had noticed the difference? :-D
>>
>> But maybe you were joking.
>> In that case you had me!

So you were not joking!

I have a hard time believing that it is possible
to be so ignorant about the real world as you have to
be to claim what you do.

But now you have convinced me!

> 
> CERN physicists are doing their job.
> We have accustomed them to working at classic relativistic speed (useful 
> but false).
> So it makes sense that they find the speed they expect.
> I tell them that the proton rotates 78 million times per second,
> They tell me no.
> I tell them that to be consistent you have to measure things with a 
> single watch, and that measuring the departure of the proton and the 
> arrival of the proton with two different watches (in this case, the lab 
> watch that counts the revolutions is TWO watches) can only lead to 
> measuring speeds incredibly lower than reality.

If you had read what I told you, you would have known
that the speed of the protons is measured with one clock,
namely the frequency of the RF-field in the RF-cavites.
The protons are accelerated by this field, and if the field
isn't at peak value in the right direction when the proton
is in a cavity, the Accelerator wouldn't work. So the time
between each time a proton is in a certain cavity is known
with extreme precision, and the circumference of the ring
is obviously precisely known.

So you see, the speed is close to c, but will never exceed c.

To believe that a proton in an accelerator move thousands
of times faster than the speed of light is beyond ignorance.

Any sane person who know what a proton is, must understand
that you can't make a proton go around a 27 km long ring if
you do not know _exactly_ how protons behave in electric and
magnetic fields.

No accelerator would work if charged particles didn't behave
_exactly_ as predicted by SR and Maxwell.

> Only the proton itself has the correct watch, because it, in its frame 
> of reference, accelerated or not, is invariant.
> Now, if we want to know the real speed of the proton, we must know its 
> momentum in an instant of its journey.
> Physicists will necessarily find p=m.Vr, and not p=m.Vo.

Physicists measure the momentum to be m⋅v⋅γ
and the energy to be m⋅c²⋅γ
where v is the speed and γ = 1/√(1−v²/c²).

Exactly as predicted by SR.

Sorry Richard. Your "theory" is utter nonsense.

But you better stay in Wonderland where you are free
to make up how protons and other objects behave.
Learning something about the real world and realizing
that what you have believed for 40 years is nonsense
would probably kill you.


-- 
Paul

https://paulba.no/