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From: Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: Commuter innovation
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2024 11:33:17 -0400
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On 4/2/2024 9:50 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not sure if you're including typical "protected bike lanes" in your
>> "full on separated" category or not. But the "protected" bike lane I've
>> linked to before (near our city's downtown) is shunned by almost all
>> cyclists in part because of its debris. The low concrete separators are
>> apparently not able to stop gravel, etc. from being flung in from the
>> road. And those separators do have gaps for driveway access.
> 
> At least the one you linked seems very poorly implemented and next to
> industrial/commercial buildings and as such likely to collect debris
> quickly, ie it’s something of self fulfilling proficiency.

You seem to be employing the "No true Scotsman" logical fallacy.

I'm giving shortcomings of bike facilities as they actually exist here. 
Wolfgang has done the same for those actually existing in Germany. I'm 
not impressed by claims saying "Well, _those_ are badly done," and 
implications that few have the documented problems.

As I've quoted before, one well known American cycling advocate said 
"99% of bike lanes give the others a bad name."

>> As for "really not a thing," You seem to be ignoring the images linked
>> above, and the images I've recently posted. I have other images as well,
>> from longer ago, if you need to see them.
> 
> That somewhere on the internet something has happened, doesn’t mean it’s a
> routine or common thing ie don’t believe everything on the internet. I’d
> also suggest that American with its car centric approach ie big wide
> multiple lane roads, and apparently minimal maintenance is again a self
> inflicted problem.

Do you have a detailed strategy for America quickly transforming to your 
version of something better? Some strategy that works in terms of 
American laws, court decisions, elected officials, political climate, etc?

I ask because (riffing off your "everything on the internet" point) 
there are countless internet articles claiming America should just 
become Amsterdam or Copenhagen. That's despite totally different 
climate, terrain, history, legal structure, politics, etc.

In the real world where I live, bike lanes collect debris. They are not 
regularly swept. They are often very badly designed, in terms of traffic 
interactions like right hooks or left crosses or other intersection 
problems. In many cases, they impose additional hazards or delays, 
compared to legally riding in the normal traffic lane. And providing 
them almost never makes a significant difference in bike mode share.

Check out the article "DC Cycling, Bike Lane Usage Decline Dramatically" 
at 
https://saveconnecticutave.org/f/dc-cycling-bike-lane-usage-decline-dramatically

-- 
- Frank Krygowski