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Path: ...!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail From: Ernest Major <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> Newsgroups: talk.origins Subject: Re: Why all apes including humans do not have tails Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2024 23:05:23 +0100 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 20 Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org Message-ID: <uupsj3$1kd95$1@dont-email.me> References: <urof5e$4gdq$1@dont-email.me> <f843e3c4-2af1-439f-88dd-30a986012e45@gmail.com> <urprb4$g7s8$1@dont-email.me> <208515e3-b646-40c9-aa0e-e4954ecf595e@gmail.com> <cpl1uidd24hbl1sscosuc5tps4rk6d8449@4ax.com> <urrlmj$pikj$1@solani.org> <uuoect$19g4i$1@dont-email.me> <uupp6a$68rm$1@solani.org> Reply-To: {$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89"; logging-data="30968"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:jNVIiAyU/eV8nsuKo2hSX3eM3fw= Return-Path: <news@eternal-september.org> X-Original-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org Delivered-To: talk-origins@ediacara.org id BE36822976C; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:05:25 -0400 (EDT) by beagle.ediacara.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9508F229758 for <talk-origins@ediacara.org>; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 18:05:23 -0400 (EDT) id 676E55DCE2; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 22:05:28 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org by mod-relay-1.kamens.us (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 470145DCBE for <talk-origins@moderators.isc.org>; Fri, 5 Apr 2024 22:05:28 +0000 (UTC) id A68C8DC01CA; Sat, 6 Apr 2024 00:05:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Injection-Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2024 22:05:23 +0200 (CEST) Content-Language: en-GB In-Reply-To: <uupp6a$68rm$1@solani.org> X-Auth-Sender: U2FsdGVkX1+2uSx2FAW/OwdvzmO/y5pjjpobRfM9dQ/z595k0w4GXjzYYwJmAtbdqG18EI+XFwz4UGgTPz5/TQ== Bytes: 2987 On 05/04/2024 22:07, DB Cates wrote: > >> Not to mention the article suggests tail loss could be associated with >> neural tube defects, which would definitely make drift much less likely. >> > Could you be more explicit here? I think that the idea is that a mutation associated with neural tube defects is under strong enough negative selection that it would be fixed by drift, and therefore there must be a countervailing selective advantage to the mutation (and also selection for compensatory mutations preventing the neural tube defects). On the other had, the mutation has been shown to be associated with neural tube defects in one genetic background. Assuming that the association carries over to other genetic backgrounds is a leap. -- alias Ernest Major